X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.3) with ESMTP id 5344503 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 10 Jan 2012 10:46:57 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=UP9f7Vjy c=1 sm=0 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:17 a=9froP7DjV_UA:10 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=N8B9JuSIAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=XGqsVgaVG4UO4JIVQnoA:9 a=QU3-f-Lz_ds7F53kKvIA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ZTqLSSH-d_tXXtaMmPwA:9 a=J0ITnDheGdcJ-7SA7iIA:7 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.170.10 Received: from [174.110.170.10] ([174.110.170.10:52913] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id D1/EC-14071-D4D5C0F4; Tue, 10 Jan 2012 15:46:22 +0000 Message-ID: <28AA9E4F5BF64389865ED1FE66F8A9FE@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: RD1B Failure Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 10:46:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CCCF85.140DCAF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CCCF85.140DCAF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, Dave, I must say you time your failures much better than I do. Your's appear to have the good manners to wait until you are back on = the ground {:>). Actually, its clear your protocol of checking things = after a flight is what has "saved" my glider record {:<( Actually, I am impressed that the RD seems to be fairly robust in = failure modes - in that it appears to keep functioning (more or less), = until you are back on the ground. =20 That kind of HP and the G loading is apparently pushing the RD to its = limits. But, as I am reminded, its only until the limits of anything = are exceeded that you realllllyyyyy know what the limits are - all else = is theoretically {:>). As we both know, it is generally the racer who = finds those limits by pushing the envelop. So Thanks for that valuable information and the seat cushions it may = have taken to get it. Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: David Leonard=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:32 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RD1B Failure Hi Ed,=20 Yes you have missed quite a saga and several failures. The underlying = cause of that one seems to be that the auto flex plate fatigued and = broke, leading to the pin failure (oversized pin). I replaced the flex = plate with a modified 4130 flywheel that seems much better suited to the = purpose than the flex-plate. =20 I then had another failure of the RD-1B when the oiling system did not = seem up to the task during my qualifying run at Reno (clocked at 229 mph = while pulling 2Gs around the course). Of course, I was probably making = over 300 h.p. and pushing the RD-1B beyond its design limits. Not to = mention that my oil temps were not being measured well and have probably = always been higher than I thought. I am guessing oil temps were in = excess of 250F when the main plain bearing in the RD-1B seized (after = landing). I have since had another failure. This time the sun gear pin seems to = have simply fallen out! Well, it fell out as much as it could until the = housing would not let it completely go, until the last little piece of = the pin sheared off. This was amazingly, again, discovered on the = ground after a long over-mountainous-terrain flight to Las Vegas. =20 So despite 4 RD-1B failures in 3 different places all in 2011 (the pin = twice, the flex plate, and the main bearing - probably all related to = racing in Reno that year) I have not made any ground toward threatening = your rotary glider time record. :-) --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net=20 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Hey, Dave Glad you didn't further challenge my Glider record {:>).=20 I was thinking that perhaps the stress of the Reno Races might be a = contributing factor to the gear box problem. Particularly if the shear = pin was designed for a N/A 13B. Anyhow, hopefully, it is that simple a = cause and you find no further damage. Send from Lake of The Ozarks resort - looking out over the waves and = reclining in a lounge chair in the cool morning breeze Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: David Leonard=20 Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:58 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] RD1B Failure Today had a failure of my RD-1B gear drive. It couldn't have happened = at a better time, I was just taxiing off the runway at my home airport. = I just finished flying 200 mi. to Santa Paula to help Paul with the = getting of Mike Wills airplane back into the air. Flight home was = otherwise unevenful and beautiful. I didn't bother taking it apart, but = will do so tomorrow. Feels like I may have broken the sun gear pin = again but will have to wait until tomorrow to be sure. The strange = thing is that nothing particularly stressed it.=20 Sorry there is not cause I can report... a little suspense until = tomorrow. --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CCCF85.140DCAF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, Dave,  I must say you time your = failures much=20 better than I do.
 
  Your's appear to have the good manners to = wait=20 until you are back on the ground {:>).  Actually, its clear your = protocol of checking things after a flight is what has "saved" my glider = record=20 {:<(
 
Actually, I am impressed that the RD seems to be = fairly=20 robust in failure modes - in that it appears to keep functioning (more = or less),=20 until you are back on the ground. 
 
That kind of HP and the G loading is apparently = pushing=20 the RD to its limits.  But, as I am reminded, its only until the = limits of=20 anything are exceeded that you realllllyyyyy know what the limits are - = all else=20 is theoretically {:>).  As we both know, it is generally the = racer who=20 finds those limits by pushing the envelop.
 
So Thanks for that valuable information and the = seat=20 cushions it may have taken to get it.
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:32 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RD1B Failure

Hi Ed,=20
Yes you have missed quite a saga and several failures.  The = underlying=20 cause of that one seems to be that the auto flex plate fatigued and = broke,=20 leading to the pin failure (oversized pin).  I replaced the flex = plate with=20 a modified 4130 flywheel that seems much better suited to the purpose = than the=20 flex-plate.  

I then had another failure of the RD-1B when the oiling system did = not seem=20 up to the task during my qualifying run at Reno (clocked at 229 mph = while=20 pulling 2Gs around the course).  Of course, I was probably making = over 300=20 h.p. and pushing the RD-1B beyond its design limits.  Not to = mention that=20 my oil temps were not being measured well and have probably always been = higher=20 than I thought.  I am guessing oil temps were in excess of 250F = when the=20 main plain bearing in the RD-1B seized (after landing).

I have since had another failure.  This time the sun gear pin = seems to=20 have simply fallen out!  Well, it fell out as much as it could = until the=20 housing would not let it completely go, until the=20 last little piece of the pin sheared off.  This was = amazingly,=20 again, discovered on the ground after a long over-mountainous-terrain = flight to=20 Las Vegas.  

So despite 4 RD-1B failures in 3 different places all in 2011 (the = pin=20 twice, the flex plate, and the main bearing - probably all related to = racing in=20 Reno that year) I have not made any ground toward threatening your = rotary glider=20 time record.  :-)

-- 
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net 
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:
Hey, Dave
 
Glad you didn't further challenge my Glider = record=20 {:>). 
 
 I was thinking that perhaps the stress = of the Reno=20 Races might be a contributing factor to the gear box problem. =20 Particularly if the shear pin was designed for a N/A 13B.  = Anyhow,=20 hopefully, it is that simple a cause and you find no further=20 damage.
 
Send from Lake of The Ozarks resort - looking = out over=20 the waves and reclining in a lounge chair in the cool morning=20 breeze
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

From: David Leonard =
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:58 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] RD1B Failure

Today had a failure of my RD-1B gear drive.  It = couldn't=20 have happened at a better time, I was just taxiing off the runway at = my home=20 airport.  I just finished flying 200 mi. to Santa Paula to help = Paul with=20 the getting of Mike Wills airplane back into the air.  Flight = home was=20 otherwise unevenful and beautiful.  I didn't bother taking it = apart, but=20 will do so tomorrow.  Feels like I may have broken the sun gear = pin again=20 but will have to wait until tomorrow to be sure.  The strange = thing is=20 that nothing particularly stressed it.

Sorry there is not = cause I can=20 report... a little suspense until tomorrow.

-- =
David=20 Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
<= /DIV>


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