X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.3) with ESMTP id 5333360 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:10:45 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=SbB1h4tu c=1 sm=0 a=sGoz7JHsf19Ea9hQSkxTog==:17 a=EMH5H9S-5hsA:10 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=HZJGGiqLAAAA:8 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=yuOwnAFxeFiPcx1EB5EA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=HeoGohOdMD0A:10 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=wjRa9KQTdNFGDWZUo98A:9 a=XKgBJ5_Jhwcaz7gvfFoA:7 a=sGoz7JHsf19Ea9hQSkxTog==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 24.74.45.158 Received: from [24.74.45.158] ([24.74.45.158:61374] helo=EdAndersonPC) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 2C/26-27627-365800F4; Sun, 01 Jan 2012 16:10:12 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 10:03:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007B_01CC3FB1.D210A810" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01CC3FB1.D210A810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian, I've been flying with the Magnecor ignition wires for almost 10 = years. They will make a set to your specified links and color plug = covers (I use different colors for Lead and trail plugs) for a = reasonable price (well, it was around $50 ten years ago). Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: bktrub@aol.com=20 Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 8:53 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires After reading the literature from magnecor, I think I'll just go with = their EMI suppressing leads, which I recieved in the mail yesterday. I = just borrowed a smaller prop so I can achieve the higher RPMs on the = ground, now to go ahead and start doing some testing on the ground. = Everything else about the plane seems satisfactory- it flies and handles = well on the ground and in the air, the engine cools well, I just need to = figure out this misfiring thing before Igo up again. Brian Trubee =20 -----Original Message----- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 12:03 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires I tried shielding solid wire ignition leads on my first engine back in = 1994. It caused the old 2nd gen coils to malfunction and miss badly for = some reason. Didn't try it on other coils. The spiral wound wires are = the way to go IMO. Never had a problem with ignition or radio noise = since using them. Tracy On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: Brian Apparently the shield you are proposeing is not a good = Idea..........The reason why is noted in the "Magnacor" link in my previous post................ Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo From: "bktrub@aol.com" =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2011 11:51 AM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires Ok, theory is nice, I prefer to just think it is all magic. My = apologies, but I am the product of our public school system : ) What I'd like to know is this- am I fabricating the wires correctly? I = cut the insulation about 1/2 inch back from the inner conductor, and = then crimp the terminal so that the conductor is folded back against the = wire under the terminal crimp. There is no outer braid or anything which actually grounds against the = engine. I am thinking of putting an outer braid around the wires and = then grounding that on one end.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 9:11 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires To expand on that for the electron-challenged, an inductor is = effectively a frequency dependent resistor. The higher the frequency, = the higher the resistance. So, the fundamental pulse to the plug makes = it through (though slowed slightly), while the harmonics (noise) that = were generated can't get past the extra resistance presented to them. The reverse is true for a capacitor. That's one of the reasons why you = see capacitors with one leg tied to the power supply & the other to = ground. The capacitor blocks DC but passes higher frequencies (the = noise) to ground. I have no doubt that the above will make physicists cringe, but it's = close enough to working knowledge for us builders to use. Charlie On 07/09/2011 08:28 AM, Tracy wrote:=20 In this case "shielded" is the wrong term. The spiral wire does = not actually shield the noise, it prevents the noise from being = transmitted. It acts as an inductor to prevent the propagation of the = noise generated at the spark gap from propagating up the wire. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Jul 9, 2011, at 2:09 AM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote: It has to do with the resistance of the long thin Monel wire. An = impedance mismatch and inductive reactance. What the mechanism is I do = not know. That is why Tracy is here, to explain such matters. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 7/8/2011 11:08:09 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time, = SBoese@uwyo.edu writes: My last massage got a little garbled, the way I have my wires = configured now, the conductor and spiral wrap are exposed and folded = under the crimped teminal ends, so aren't both the conductor and the = spiral wrap acting as a conductor? What is doing the shielding? Brian Trubee ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01CC3FB1.D210A810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Brian, I've been flying with the Magnecor = ignition wires=20 for almost 10 years.  They will make a set to your specified links = and=20 color plug covers (I use different colors for Lead and trail plugs) for = a=20 reasonable price (well, it was around $50 ten years ago).
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 8:53 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug = wires

After reading the literature from magnecor, I think I'll just go = with their=20 EMI suppressing leads, which I recieved in the mail yesterday. I just = borrowed a=20 smaller prop so I can achieve the higher RPMs on the ground, now to go = ahead and=20 start doing some testing on the ground. Everything else about the plane = seems=20 satisfactory- it flies and handles well on the ground and in the air, = the engine=20 cools well, I just need to figure out this misfiring thing before Igo up = again.
 
 
Brian Trubee
 


 


-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 = 12:03=20 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires

I tried = shielding=20 solid wire ignition leads on my first engine back in 1994.  It = caused the=20 old 2nd gen coils to malfunction and miss badly for some = reason.  =20 Didn't try it on other coils.  The spiral wound wires are the way = to go=20 IMO.  Never had a problem with ignition or radio noise since using=20 them.

Tracy


On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Kelly Troyer = <keltro@att.net>=20 wrote:
Brian
   Apparently the shield you are proposeing is = not a good=20 Idea..........The reason why is noted in the
"Magnacor" link in my previous=20 post................
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ = Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil=20 Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: "bktrub@aol.com" <bktrub@aol.com>=20

To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2011 = 11:51 AM=20

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires

Ok,  theory is = nice,=20 I prefer to just think it is all magic. My apologies, but I = am the=20 product of our public school system : )
 
What I'd like to know = is=20 this- am I fabricating the wires correctly? I cut the insulation = about=20 1/2 inch back from the inner conductor, and then crimp the terminal so = that=20 the conductor is folded back against the wire under the terminal=20 crimp.
There is no outer braid or anything which actually grounds = against the=20 engine. I am thinking of putting an outer braid around the wires and = then=20 grounding that on one end.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:=20 Sat, Jul 9, 2011 9:11 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug=20 wires

To expand on that for the electron-challenged, an inductor is = effectively=20 a frequency dependent resistor. The higher the frequency, the higher = the=20 resistance. So, the fundamental pulse to the plug makes it through = (though=20 slowed slightly), while the harmonics (noise) that were = generated  can't=20 get past the extra resistance presented to them.

The reverse is = true=20 for a capacitor. That's one of the reasons why you see capacitors with = one leg=20 tied to the power supply & the other to ground. The capacitor = blocks DC=20 but passes higher frequencies (the noise) to ground.

I have no = doubt=20 that the above will make physicists cringe, but it's close enough to = working=20 knowledge for us builders to use.

Charlie

On 07/09/2011 = 08:28=20 AM, Tracy wrote:=20
In this case "shielded" is the wrong term.   The spiral = wire does=20 not actually shield the noise, it prevents the noise from being = transmitted.=20    It acts as an inductor to prevent the propagation of = the noise=20 generated at the spark gap from propagating up the wire.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 9, 2011, at 2:09 AM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote:

It has to do with the resistance of the long thin Monel wire. = An=20 impedance mismatch and inductive reactance. What the mechanism is = I do not=20 know. That is why Tracy is here, to explain such matters.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 7/8/2011 11:08:09 P.M. Paraguay Standard = Time, SBoese@uwyo.edu = writes:
My last massage got a little garbled, the way I have my = wires=20 configured now, the conductor and spiral wrap are exposed and = folded=20 under the crimped teminal ends, so aren't both the conductor and = the=20 spiral wrap acting as a conductor? What is doing the = shielding?
 
Brian=20 = Trubee




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