X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost06.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.106] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.3) with ESMTP id 5322273 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 14:10:45 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.106; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-98-85-146-162.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.146.162]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc06) with SMTP id <20111221191008H0600a72ipe>; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 19:10:09 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.146.162] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] off topic, propeller carving and paint Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 14:10:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CCBFEA.3FAE45E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AczAEDGJJ8AEc3/2TxqWlpNvaAdWBwAA5dKg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CCBFEA.3FAE45E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tracy's PSRU ratio is either 2.17 turning backwards (A,B) or 2.85 turning forward (C) I think?? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:41 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] off topic, propeller carving and paint Ernest, Just an observation but with the 3.17 ratio would your prop be somewhat more efficient if it were longer than 1.7m (approx 67 inches) considering it will be turning only 1893 rpm at 6000 engine rpm............With my 2.85 ratio RD1C I ordered my "IVO" Magnum at 74 inch diameter (knowing it is easily shortened if necessary) which is the at the outer max diameter usable on the Dyke Delta(Tom Bauer had a 74 inch last I heard)..........The 2.85 redrive gives about 2100 prop rpm at 6000 engine rpm which is still fairly low........... Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo From: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 12:16 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: off topic, propeller carving and paint Short answer: 1.7m diameter, with a 3.33m pitch. I'm using a 3.17 reduction gearset, with an "optimistic" output of 199Hp from the engine, and I was aiming for an aggressive cruise prop under the assumption that cutting off pieces is much easier than stapling them on 8*) Long answer: Look up JavaProp at http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/javaprop.htm You can download the app from his page, or just run it from the web. Enter the following: 2-blade 1730 RPM 1.7m diameter 0.16m spinner 75m/s velocity 141000 W of power square tip In the airfoils tab: MH126 at 6* MH112 at 2* MH114 at 2.5* E193 at 3.5* Go back to the Design tab and click "Design It!" at the bottom. On the Multi-Analysis tab, click "Analyze!" at the bottom. More numbers than a person knows what to do with. I am not delusional enough to think that this first example will be a perfect match. It will hopefully get me some good data on the upper limit of what my engine/airframe combination will handle; but, more than that, it is meant for me to iron out the construction process. The core is southern white pine (cheap, light, soft, and carves nicely), with a heavy layer of glass to carry the loads. Over the course of making this one, I've learned how to organize the milling to minimize the amount of cutting necessary, and how to get the cutter down a 6" hole. I had to switch the cutting head from a laminate router, to an electric die grinder. To rough it in, I was originally cutting a grid at 1" intervals and then chiseling away the "non-propeller" chunks. I'm now just cutting cross-wise slots at 6" intervals and chiseling off the excess. Makes a BIG difference when you're cutting head movement is limited to about 5"/min. Tracy wrote: > Only a glimpse of the full blade but it looked like one hell of a high > pitch on that thing. What are the figures on it? > > Tracy > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Ernest Christley > wrote: > > Ed Anderson wrote: > > Impressive, Ernest, so when do you start producing Props for the list? > > > > Ed > > Started already. Did you see how slowly that cutting head was > moving? I don't think most of us here will be alive by > the time I'm ready to ship in quantity 8*) > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: > > > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 11:18 AM > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] off topic, propeller carving and paint > > > >> Thought you guys might be interested in the video of how my propeller > >> carving is going: > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzViR2agLcY > >> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CCBFEA.3FAE45E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tracy’s PSRU ratio is either 2.17 turning backwards (A,B) = or 2.85 turning forward (C) I think??

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Wednesday, December = 21, 2011 1:41 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] off = topic, propeller carving and paint

 

Ernest,

   Just an observation but with the 3.17 ratio would your prop be somewhat = more

efficient if it were longer than 1.7m (approx 67 inches) considering it will be = turning

only 1893 rpm at 6000 engine rpm............With my 2.85 ratio RD1C I = ordered my

"IVO" Magnum at 74 inch diameter (knowing it is easily shortened if = necessary)

which is the at the outer max diameter usable on the Dyke Delta(Tom Bauer had

a 74 inch last I heard)..........The = 2.85  redrive gives about 2100 prop rpm at 6000

engine rpm which is still fairly = low........... 

 

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETIC= S"_TO4E50 Turbo

 

From: Ernest = Christley <echristley@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> =
Sent: Tuesday, December = 20, 2011 12:16 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = off topic, propeller carving and paint

Short answer:
1.7m diameter, with a 3.33m pitch.  I'm using a 3.17 reduction = gearset, with an "optimistic" output of 199Hp from the
engine, and I was aiming for an aggressive cruise prop under the = assumption that cutting off pieces is much easier than
stapling them on 8*)

Long answer:
Look up JavaProp at http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/javaprop.htm
You can download the app from his page, or just run it from the = web.  Enter the following:
2-blade
1730 RPM
1.7m diameter
0.16m spinner
75m/s velocity
141000 W of power
square tip

In the airfoils tab:
MH126 at 6*
MH112 at 2*
MH114 at 2.5*
E193 at 3.5*

Go back to the Design tab and click "Design It!" at the = bottom.  On the Multi-Analysis tab, click "Analyze!" at the
bottom.  More numbers than a person knows what to do with.

I am not delusional enough to think that this first example will be a = perfect match.  It will hopefully get me some good
data on the upper limit of what my engine/airframe combination will = handle; but, more than that, it is meant for me to
iron out the construction process.

The core is southern white pine (cheap, light, soft, and carves nicely), = with a heavy layer of glass to carry the loads.
Over the course of making this one, I've learned how to organize the = milling to minimize the amount of cutting
necessary, and how to get the cutter down a 6" hole.  I had to = switch the cutting head from a laminate router, to an
electric die grinder.  To rough it in, I was originally cutting a = grid at 1" intervals and then chiseling away the
"non-propeller" chunks.  I'm now just cutting cross-wise = slots at 6" intervals and chiseling off the excess.  Makes a
BIG difference when you're cutting head movement is limited to about 5"/min.


Tracy wrote:
> Only a glimpse of the full blade but it looked like one hell of a = high
> pitch on that thing.  What are the figures on it?
>
> Tracy
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net
> <mailto:echristley@att.net>> = wrote:
>
>    Ed Anderson wrote:
>    > Impressive, Ernest, so when do you start = producing Props for the list?
>    >
>    > Ed
>
>    Started already.  Did you see how slowly that = cutting head was
>    moving?  I don't think most of us here will be = alive by
>    the time I'm ready to ship in quantity 8*)
>
>    >
>    > = --------------------------------------------------
>    > From: <echristley@nc.rr.com = <mailto:echristley@nc.rr.com>><= br> >    > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 11:18 AM
>    > To: "Rotary = motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t
>    <mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>>
>    > Subject: [FlyRotary] off topic, propeller carving = and paint
>    >
>    >> Thought you guys might be interested in the = video of how my propeller
>    >> carving is going:
>    >>
>    >> = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DYzViR2agLcY
>    >>

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