X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com ([209.85.161.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.2) with ESMTPS id 5293990 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 09:07:55 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.52; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by faao24 with SMTP id o24so3782068faa.25 for ; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 06:07:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=2MotiHKDKQdwLttF0kfJ1+ZDyevFY+9+6SOEfyrPdkU=; b=cwMJUDDAcPXahUWdCaZNoEN6WyXKlOP51p4BmqQJhMfOZ+PWDuH6g3tUmM1E2wKIBU LwveXyKTrqu8dIFZq+LieEqV/OHCb7FK+sk5Ag+1nhAGRrM7q3+ENNz+M9leiUH+eSif 2X52kFM4Xx0ygOuEnvlGF80eT58wI6cD+31tg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.220.164 with SMTP id px4mr10611138igc.8.1323180437630; Tue, 06 Dec 2011 06:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.109.9 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Dec 2011 06:07:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 06:07:16 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Lube for RD1B - Full Inspection Report From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9340ceff56dfd04b36cf347 --14dae9340ceff56dfd04b36cf347 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The G for a relatively slow plane like me was just barely over 2. Average was more like 1.6. But the prop RPM was up around 3200 (adding to gyroscopic loads). Dave Leonard On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Thanks Dave for the report on the RD1B............That shines a lot of > light on the problem.........The high power > (probably at least 250+) and add in the gyroscopic loads of being in > almost constant turns could have caused > a slight flexing of the 1/2 inch mount plate putting the input-shaft and > output-shaft in a slight misalignment that > may have caused the plain bearing to seize...........I would not expect > the prop shaft and its very rigid housing > to flex...........What was max "G" you saw during the race > ??...............Just my armchair "WAG"............ > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* David Leonard > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, December 5, 2011 12:58 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Lube for RD1B - Full Inspection Report > > Hi Kelly, > > I finally got around to taking apart my gear box the rest of the way > (removing the prop shaft. It was not easy because it had frozen in there > pretty well. There is bearing around where the oil comes into the box. It > is a split bearing. The old that flows aft (away from the prop) lubes the > aft part of that bearing then flow into the main gallery and bathes the > planet gears and the rest of the gear drive. > > The part that was seized was the aft part of that bearing. When it seized > the prevented oil from flowing aft into the main gallery. > > So as far as fixing the lube for the upper planet gears, I don't think > that we have any evidence that there is a issue. The damage to my planet > gears was probably more from oil starvation causing overheating.. > > As to the reason for the bearing failure, your guess is as good as mine. > Very high duty use with continuous gyroscopic loads and possibly less than > ideal oil flow are the likely culprits. > > It is very likely that we will never know. I continue to have no second > thoughts about flying with the RD-1B, though I likely will not race my > plane again. Partly because of the gear box issue but mostly because I > don't feel comfortable going that much faster than Vne without making some > serious mods to my airframe. Wouldn't mind having a nice rotary powered > lancair to race though :-) > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Dave, > Any further thoughts about the cause and fix for the lube problem you > encountered with your RD1B > at Reno beyond having a dedicated oil supply to the Redrive not shared by > the Turbo ?............Any > input from Tracy about the problem ?................ > > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* David Leonard > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Saturday, November 26, 2011 12:41 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Plugs not for Airplanes.. > > Funny thing, > I was just installing a new set of spark plugs and noticed that there is a > set of installation pictures on the stock NGT spark plug.. the last > picture is a big red X through a picture of an airplane. Specifically, we > should apparently not use these spark plugs with motor gliders or > ultralights. So I think regular experimental airplanes should be OK. :-) > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > > > > > > > > -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net --14dae9340ceff56dfd04b36cf347 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The G for a relatively slow plane like me was just barely over 2.=A0 Averag= e was more like 1.6.=A0 But the prop RPM was up around 3200 (adding to gyro= scopic loads).

Dave Leonard

On Mon= , Dec 5, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
T= hanks Dave for the report on the RD1B............That shines a lot of light= on the problem.........The high power
(probably at least 250+) and add in the gyroscopic loads of bein= g in almost constant turns could have caused
a slight flexing of the 1/2 inch mount plate putting the input-s= haft and output-shaft in a slight misalignment that
may have caused the plain bearing to seize...........I would not= expect the prop shaft and its very rigid housing
to flex...........What was=A0max "G"=A0yo= u saw=A0during the race ??...............Just my armchair "WAG"..= ..........=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&quo= t;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard &l= t;wdleonard@gmail.= com>
To: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, December= 5, 2011 12:58 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Lube for RD1B - Full Inspection Report

Hi Kelly,=20

I finally got around to taking apart my gear box the rest of the way (= removing the prop shaft. =A0It was not easy because it had frozen in there = pretty well. =A0There is bearing around where the oil comes into the box. = =A0It is a split bearing. =A0The old that flows aft (away from the prop) lu= bes the aft part of that bearing then flow into the main gallery and =A0bat= hes the planet gears and the rest of the gear drive. =A0

The part that was=A0seized=A0was the aft part of that bearing. =A0When= it seized the prevented oil from flowing aft into the main gallery. =A0

So as far as fixing the lube for the upper planet gears, I don't t= hink that we have any evidence that there is a issue. =A0The damage to my p= lanet gears was probably more from oil=A0starvation=A0causing overheating..=

As to the reason for the bearing failure, your guess is as good as min= e. =A0Very high duty use with continuous gyroscopic loads and possibly less= than ideal oil flow are the likely culprits. =A0

It is very likely that we will never know. =A0I continue to have no se= cond thoughts about flying with the RD-1B, though I likely will not race my= plane again. =A0Partly because of the gear box issue but mostly because I = don't feel=A0comfortable=A0going that much faster than Vne without maki= ng some serious mods to my airframe. =A0Wouldn't mind having a nice rot= ary powered lancair to race though =A0:-)
--=A0
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRo= ster.net

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@a= tt.net> wrote:
Dave,
=A0Any further thoughts=A0about the cause and fix for=A0the lube= problem you encountered with your RD1B
at Reno beyond having a dedicated oil supply to the Redrive not = shared by the Turbo ?............Any
input from Tracy about the problem ?...............= .
=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&quo= t;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo







<= /div>



--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
--14dae9340ceff56dfd04b36cf347--