X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from outbound-b1.mx-route.com ([208.123.79.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.2) with ESMTP id 5293145 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 18:04:33 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=208.123.79.45; envelope-from=tom@midwestaviation.net Received: from fl-184-0-224-156.dhcp.centurylinkservices.net (HELO [192.168.1.71]) ([184.0.224.156]) by smtp.mxtoolbox.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 05 Dec 2011 17:03:56 -0600 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Lube for RD1B - Full Inspection Report References: From: Tom Giddings Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-16--925833623 X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8F190) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <1F3EE504-FD33-4D50-9860-7B4F1AD62926@midwestaviation.net> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 18:03:50 -0500 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8F190) --Apple-Mail-16--925833623 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thank you...I am well versed in his accident as well as several others Ventu= res that have met with problems at Reno. Kind Regards Tom Giddings VP Avionics Sales Midwest Avionics 200 Hardy Roberts Drive Paducah, KY 42086-0219 877-904-9966 tom@midwestavionics.net Online Store=20 www.midwest-avionics.com On Dec 5, 2011, at 5:51 PM, Charlie England wrote:= > Before you do that, you might want to research Tommy Rose, if you're not a= lready familiar with his story. >=20 > Charlie >=20 > On 12/05/2011 02:47 PM, Thomas Giddings wrote: >>=20 >> Dave: I don't have a Rotary Powered Lancair, but I do have a 20B Supercha= rged Questair Venture.Airframe is nearing completion. Hoping to Race it in a= couple of years. Hope The Reno Races will exist when I am ready.=20 >>=20 >> Tom Giddings >>=20 >> On Dec 5, 2011, at 1:58 PM, David Leonard wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi Kelly, >>>=20 >>> I finally got around to taking apart my gear box the rest of the way (re= moving the prop shaft. It was not easy because it had frozen in there prett= y well. There is bearing around where the oil comes into the box. It is a s= plit bearing. The old that flows aft (away from the prop) lubes the aft par= t of that bearing then flow into the main gallery and bathes the planet gea= rs and the rest of the gear drive. =20 >>>=20 >>> The part that was seized was the aft part of that bearing. When it seiz= ed the prevented oil from flowing aft into the main gallery. =20 >>>=20 >>> So as far as fixing the lube for the upper planet gears, I= don't think that we have any evidence that there is a issue. The damage to= my planet gears was probably more from oil starvation causing overheating..= >>>=20 >>> As to the reason for the bearing failure, your guess is as good as mine.= Very high duty use with continuous gyroscopic loads and possibly less than= ideal oil flow are the likely culprits. =20 >>>=20 >>> It is very likely that we will never know. I continue to have no second= thoughts about flying with the RD-1B, though I likely will not race my plan= e again. Partly because of the gear box issue but mostly because I don't fe= el comfortable going that much faster than Vne without making some serious m= ods to my airframe. Wouldn't mind having a nice rotary powered lancair to r= ace though :-) >>> --=20 >>> David Leonard >>>=20 >>> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >>> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >>> http://RotaryRoster.net >>>=20 >>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >>> Dave, >>> Any further thoughts about the cause and fix for the lube problem you e= ncountered with your RD1B >>> at Reno beyond having a dedicated oil supply to the Redrive not shared b= y the Turbo ?............Any >>> input from Tracy about the problem ?................ >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Kelly Troyer >>> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) >>> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >>> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >>> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >>> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >>>=20 >>> From: David Leonard >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 >>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 12:41 PM >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Plugs not for Airplanes.. >>>=20 >>> Funny thing, >>> I was just installing a new set of spark plugs and noticed that there is= a set of installation pictures on the stock NGT spark plug.. the last pict= ure is a big red X through a picture of an airplane. Specifically, we shoul= d apparently not use these spark plugs with motor gliders or ultralights. S= o I think regular experimental airplanes should be OK. :-) >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> David Leonard >>>=20 >>> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >>> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >>> http://RotaryRoster.net >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-16--925833623 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Thank you...I am well versed in his accident as well as several others Ventures that have met with problems at Reno.

Kind Regards
Tom Giddings
VP Avionics Sales
Midwest Avionics
200 Hardy Roberts Drive
Paducah, KY 42086-0219
877-904-9966
Online Store 


On Dec 5, 2011, at 5:51 PM, Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Before you do that, you might want to research Tommy Rose, if you're not already familiar with his story.

Charlie

On 12/05/2011 02:47 PM, Thomas Giddings wrote:
Dave: I don't have a Rotary Powered Lancair, but I do have a 20B Supercharged Questair Venture.Airframe is nearing completion. Hoping to Race it in a couple of years. Hope The Reno Races will exist when I am ready. 

Tom Giddings

On Dec 5, 2011, at 1:58 PM, David Leonard wrote:

Hi Kelly,

I finally got around to taking apart my gear box the rest of the way (removing the prop shaft.  It was not easy because it had frozen in there pretty well.  There is bearing around where the oil comes into the box.  It is a split bearing.  The old that flows aft (away from the prop) lubes the aft part of that bearing then flow into the main gallery and  bathes the planet gears and the rest of the gear drive.  

The part that was seized was the aft part of that bearing.  When it seized the prevented oil from flowing aft into the main gallery.  

So as far as fixing the lube for the upper planet gears, I don't think that we have any evidence that there is a issue.  The damage to my planet gears was probably more from oil starvation causing overheating..

As to the reason for the bearing failure, your guess is as good as mine.  Very high duty use with continuous gyroscopic loads and possibly less than ideal oil flow are the likely culprits.  

It is very likely that we will never know.  I continue to have no second thoughts about flying with the RD-1B, though I likely will not race my plane again.  Partly because of the gear box issue but mostly because I don't feel comfortable going that much faster than Vne without making some serious mods to my airframe.  Wouldn't mind having a nice rotary powered lancair to race though  :-)
-- 
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
 Any further thoughts about the cause and fix for the lube problem you encountered with your RD1B
at Reno beyond having a dedicated oil supply to the Redrive not shared by the Turbo ?............Any
input from Tracy about the problem ?................
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 12:41 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Plugs not for Airplanes..

Funny thing,
I was just installing a new set of spark plugs and noticed that there is a set of installation pictures on the stock NGT spark plug..  the last picture is a big red X through a picture of an airplane.  Specifically, we should apparently not use these spark plugs with motor gliders or ultralights.  So I think regular experimental airplanes should be OK.  :-)

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net








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