X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm27.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.92] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.2) with SMTP id 5293127 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 17:52:09 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.94.237.92; envelope-from=ceengland@bellsouth.net Received: from [66.94.237.200] by nm27.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2011 22:51:34 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.51] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2011 22:51:34 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp104.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2011 22:51:33 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bellsouth.net; s=s1024; t=1323125493; bh=rb8hF743SZ7GQW4a9hZzTSCHUTX6qYeOROo1pu0dvi8=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=JjEiknAUo0TEPBEoCtx+Q4ISUcvHOIQbXhKJUc+Fl6fEc08W9iZyB3iv1FOWrEF6v4z0l/v3CVDCjrP7GudsY6KsK7EFEhORDG2AXmpZO4r0ydpWWcE/kRmPQ9Qs1SigxbHPnFvxK4/h82N2YiC6y3VasKI4smRjGo8zhL5OGdY= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 899655.43820.bm@smtp104.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 3_aNPMsVM1nxF9cGAiizXPURmZJw2l7yAnrgNb3m4DW8wmg NZUX0v8D6ii2iU.hK0Xkmqpu2UdcWr2zy0w1SaLNFnAeXX00F4zKG3z_CCbH wsBw7cPm04Fk_zOvBj9Dd1DaUfHHN7LhJvwKAsSug.URpF.I91TxVaXiUBeZ hEB3ye1a2r5HJWU6L8J3t3G01XLmfwqJGjTHBZhrS4nmtvjdoWC6vhecHLFj wZEA9TsTSepr7OpQUUWek9kXC1Ha8_ZZEz.FFVP5afc1fdal4GG92MOLp.8E aJY9hQ782SJF4T.fR0Zl5NQZFtUQAcY9ExqrXRjovcYbrVjSKUrzNpq5WlD8 mvSyDkc8eqys9yLn_2YaOjnhVtBSrXQEVO9M.dXC5dLJk0SPBQ5tBufJHRwk _4up_.e.ySRW4W15qyqPYosXkDBagoAO2Lkof1YCb0zeDHbVLSq4ph651Bz8 upasrdnCNCVKirQgzD6BIMyV6Kl6t379l_LwHqw-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: uXJ_6LOswBCr8InijhYErvjWlJuRkoKPGNeiuu7PA.5wcGoy Received: from [192.168.10.5] (ceengland@98.95.167.209 with plain) by smtp104.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 05 Dec 2011 14:51:33 -0800 PST Message-ID: <4EDD4AF4.8040908@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:51:32 -0600 From: Charlie England User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110922 Thunderbird/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Lube for RD1B - Full Inspection Report References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050003050806080907080204" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050003050806080907080204 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Before you do that, you might want to research Tommy Rose, if you're not already familiar with his story. Charlie On 12/05/2011 02:47 PM, Thomas Giddings wrote: > Dave: I don't have a Rotary Powered Lancair, but I do have a 20B > Supercharged Questair Venture.Airframe is nearing completion. Hoping > to Race it in a couple of years. Hope The Reno Races will exist when I > am ready. > > Tom Giddings > > On Dec 5, 2011, at 1:58 PM, David Leonard wrote: > >> Hi Kelly, >> >> I finally got around to taking apart my gear box the rest of the way >> (removing the prop shaft. It was not easy because it had frozen in >> there pretty well. There is bearing around where the oil comes into >> the box. It is a split bearing. The old that flows aft (away from >> the prop) lubes the aft part of that bearing then flow into the main >> gallery and bathes the planet gears and the rest of the gear drive. >> >> The part that was seized was the aft part of that bearing. When it >> seized the prevented oil from flowing aft into the main gallery. >> >> So as far as fixing the lube for the upper planet gears, I don't >> think that we have any evidence that there is a issue. The damage to >> my planet gears was probably more from oil starvation causing >> overheating.. >> >> As to the reason for the bearing failure, your guess is as good as >> mine. Very high duty use with continuous gyroscopic loads and >> possibly less than ideal oil flow are the likely culprits. >> >> It is very likely that we will never know. I continue to have no >> second thoughts about flying with the RD-1B, though I likely will not >> race my plane again. Partly because of the gear box issue but mostly >> because I don't feel comfortable going that much faster than Vne >> without making some serious mods to my airframe. Wouldn't mind >> having a nice rotary powered lancair to race though :-) >> -- >> David Leonard >> >> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >> http://RotaryRoster.net >> >> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kelly Troyer > > wrote: >> >> Dave, >> Any further thoughts about the cause and fix for the lube >> problem you encountered with your RD1B >> at Reno beyond having a dedicated oil supply to the Redrive not >> shared by the Turbo ?............Any >> input from Tracy about the problem ?................ >> Kelly Troyer >> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >> >> *From:* David Leonard > > >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > >> *Sent:* Saturday, November 26, 2011 12:41 PM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Plugs not for Airplanes.. >> >> Funny thing, >> I was just installing a new set of spark plugs and noticed that >> there is a set of installation pictures on the stock NGT spark >> plug.. the last picture is a big red X through a picture of an >> airplane. Specifically, we should apparently not use these spark >> plugs with motor gliders or ultralights. So I think regular >> experimental airplanes should be OK. :-) >> >> -- >> David Leonard >> >> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >> http://RotaryRoster.net >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------050003050806080907080204 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Before you do that, you might want to research Tommy Rose, if you're not already familiar with his story.

Charlie

On 12/05/2011 02:47 PM, Thomas Giddings wrote:
Dave: I don't have a Rotary Powered Lancair, but I do have a 20B Supercharged Questair Venture.Airframe is nearing completion. Hoping to Race it in a couple of years. Hope The Reno Races will exist when I am ready. 

Tom Giddings

On Dec 5, 2011, at 1:58 PM, David Leonard wrote:

Hi Kelly,

I finally got around to taking apart my gear box the rest of the way (removing the prop shaft.  It was not easy because it had frozen in there pretty well.  There is bearing around where the oil comes into the box.  It is a split bearing.  The old that flows aft (away from the prop) lubes the aft part of that bearing then flow into the main gallery and  bathes the planet gears and the rest of the gear drive.  

The part that was seized was the aft part of that bearing.  When it seized the prevented oil from flowing aft into the main gallery.  

So as far as fixing the lube for the upper planet gears, I don't think that we have any evidence that there is a issue.  The damage to my planet gears was probably more from oil starvation causing overheating..

As to the reason for the bearing failure, your guess is as good as mine.  Very high duty use with continuous gyroscopic loads and possibly less than ideal oil flow are the likely culprits.  

It is very likely that we will never know.  I continue to have no second thoughts about flying with the RD-1B, though I likely will not race my plane again.  Partly because of the gear box issue but mostly because I don't feel comfortable going that much faster than Vne without making some serious mods to my airframe.  Wouldn't mind having a nice rotary powered lancair to race though  :-)
-- 
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
 Any further thoughts about the cause and fix for the lube problem you encountered with your RD1B
at Reno beyond having a dedicated oil supply to the Redrive not shared by the Turbo ?............Any
input from Tracy about the problem ?................
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 12:41 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Plugs not for Airplanes..

Funny thing,
I was just installing a new set of spark plugs and noticed that there is a set of installation pictures on the stock NGT spark plug..  the last picture is a big red X through a picture of an airplane.  Specifically, we should apparently not use these spark plugs with motor gliders or ultralights.  So I think regular experimental airplanes should be OK.  :-)

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net








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