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Mon, 05 Dec 2011 14:09:23 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.115.331698 References: Message-ID: <1323122963.25513.YahooMailNeo@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:09:23 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Lube for RD1B - Full Inspection Report To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1163340637-596453426-1323122963=:25513" ---1163340637-596453426-1323122963=:25513 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Dave for the report on the RD1B............That shines a lot of ligh= t on the problem.........The high power=0A(probably at least 250+) and add = in the gyroscopic loads of being in almost constant turns could have caused= =0Aa slight flexing of the 1/2 inch mount plate putting the input-shaft and= output-shaft in a slight misalignment that=0Amay have caused the plain bea= ring to seize...........I would not expect the prop shaft and its very rigi= d housing=0Ato flex...........What was=A0max "G"=A0you saw=A0during the rac= e ??...............Just my armchair "WAG"............=A0=0A=0AKelly Troyer= =0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM= 2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A_= _______________________________=0AFrom: David Leonard = =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Mon= day, December 5, 2011 12:58 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Lube for RD1B - F= ull Inspection Report=0A=0A=0AHi Kelly, =0A=0AI finally got around to takin= g apart my gear box the rest of the way (removing the prop shaft. =A0It was= not easy because it had frozen in there pretty well. =A0There is bearing a= round where the oil comes into the box. =A0It is a split bearing. =A0The ol= d that flows aft (away from the prop) lubes the aft part of that bearing th= en flow into the main gallery and =A0bathes the planet gears and the rest o= f the gear drive. =A0=0A=0AThe part that was=A0seized=A0was the aft part of= that bearing. =A0When it seized the prevented oil from flowing aft into th= e main gallery. =A0=0A=0ASo as far as fixing the lube for the upper planet = gears, I don't think that we have any evidence that there is a issue. =A0Th= e damage to my planet gears was probably more from oil=A0starvation=A0causi= ng overheating..=0A=0AAs to the reason for the bearing failure, your guess = is as good as mine. =A0Very high duty use with continuous gyroscopic loads = and possibly less than ideal oil flow are the likely culprits. =A0=0A=0AIt = is very likely that we will never know. =A0I continue to have no second tho= ughts about flying with the RD-1B, though I likely will not race my plane a= gain. =A0Partly because of the gear box issue but mostly because I don't fe= el=A0comfortable=A0going that much faster than Vne without making some seri= ous mods to my airframe. =A0Wouldn't mind having a nice rotary powered lanc= air to race though =A0:-)=0A--=A0=0ADavid Leonard=0A=0ATurbo Rotary RV-6 N4= VY=0Ahttp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0Ahttp://RotaryRoster.net=0A=0A=0AOn Wed,= Nov 30, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A=0ADave,= =0A>=A0Any further thoughts=A0about the cause and fix for=A0the lube proble= m you encountered with your RD1B=0A>at Reno beyond having a dedicated oil s= upply to the Redrive not shared by the Turbo ?............Any =0A>input fro= m Tracy about the problem ?................=0A>=0A>=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYK= E DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>= "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=0A>=0A>F= rom: David Leonard =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net> =0A>Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 12:41 PM= =0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Plugs not for Airplanes..=0A>=0A>=0A>Funny thing,= =0A>I was just installing a new set of spark plugs and noticed that there i= s a set of installation pictures on the stock NGT spark plug.. =A0the last = picture is a big red X through a picture of an airplane. =A0Specifically, w= e should apparently not use these spark plugs with motor gliders or ultrali= ghts. =A0So I think regular experimental airplanes should be OK. =A0:-)=0A>= -- =0A>David Leonard=0A>=0A>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>http://N4VY.RotaryRos= ter.net=0A>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> ---1163340637-596453426-1323122963=:25513 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Dave for the report on the RD1B............Th= at shines a lot of light on the problem.........The high power
(probably at least 2= 50+) and add in the gyroscopic loads of being in almost constant turns coul= d have caused
a slight flexing of = the 1/2 inch mount plate putting the input-shaft and output-shaft in a slig= ht misalignment that
may have caused the = plain bearing to seize...........I would not expect the prop shaft and its = very rigid housing
to flex...........Wh= at was max "G" you saw du= ring the race ??...............Just my armchair "WAG"............ 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From:= David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net>
Sent:<= /B> Monday, December 5, 2011 12:58 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Lube for RD1B - Full Inspection Repo= rt

Hi Kelly,=20

I finally got around to taking apart my gear box the rest of the way (= removing the prop shaft.  It was not easy because it had frozen in the= re pretty well.  There is bearing around where the oil comes into the = box.  It is a split bearing.  The old that flows aft (away from t= he prop) lubes the aft part of that bearing then flow into the main gallery= and  bathes the planet gears and the rest of the gear drive.  

The part that was seized was the aft part of that bearing. &= nbsp;When it seized the prevented oil from flowing aft into the main galler= y.  

So as far as fixing the lube for the upper planet gears, I don't think= that we have any evidence that there is a issue.  The damage to my pl= anet gears was probably more from oil starvation causing overheat= ing..

As to the reason for the bearing failure, your guess is as good as min= e.  Very high duty use with continuous gyroscopic loads and possibly l= ess than ideal oil flow are the likely culprits.  

It is very likely that we will never know.  I continue to have no= second thoughts about flying with the RD-1B, though I likely will not race= my plane again.  Partly because of the gear box issue but mostly beca= use I don't feel comfortable going that much faster than Vne with= out making some serious mods to my airframe.  Wouldn't mind having a n= ice rotary powered lancair to race though  :-)
-- 
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY= .RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kelly= Troyer <keltro@att.net><= /SPAN> wrote:
Dave,
 Any further thoughts about the cause and fix for = ;the lube problem you encountered with your RD1B
at Reno beyond having a dedicated oil supply to the Redrive not = shared by the Turbo ?............Any
input from Tracy about the problem ?...............= .
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 12= :41 PM
Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Plugs not for Airplanes..

Funny thing,
I was just installing a new set of spark plugs and noticed that there = is a set of installation pictures on the stock NGT spark plug..  the l= ast picture is a big red X through a picture of an airplane.  Specific= ally, we should apparently not use these spark plugs with motor gliders or = ultralights.  So I think regular experimental airplanes should be OK. =  :-)

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N= 4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net







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