X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.av-mx.com ([137.118.16.57] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.2) with ESMTP id 5197774 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 12 Nov 2011 23:21:54 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=137.118.16.57; envelope-from=res12@fairpoint.net Received: from main (dflo-67-158-146-138.gtcom.net [67.158.146.138]) (Authenticated sender: res12@fairpoint.net) by smtp1.av-mx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B67D6291B94 for ; Sat, 12 Nov 2011 23:21:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1257B521610E41E9B3A424AE52DEA30B@main> From: "Richard Sohn" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Am I Alone?? Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:22:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01CCA189.86621C70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01CCA189.86621C70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Charlie England=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 10:12 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Am I Alone?? On 11/12/2011 8:39 PM, Richard Sohn wrote:=20 I am desperately trying to get the single rotor running in the = airplane. The engine on the test stand is just humming away, and when I = tried the one in the airplane a couple of weeks ago it did not do = anything.=20 No ignition!!! cranking too slow??? starter cable too long??? CAS = signal too weak??? =20 The ignition fired when I took the plugs out of the rotor housing, = but not when they were in the housing. The crank speed difference is 240 = vs 320 RPM. The engine on the test stand is already so free that it does = crank about 360RPM. Solution? Making a larger diameter trigger wheel to = make up for the slower crank speed. Turned out to make no difference. = What is going on?????.=20 My ignition system is a MSD Street Fire unit. At this point, I = decided to have a closer look at the trigger characteristics of this = unit. After running it on the bench with all sorts of triggers, it turns = out to require a minimum pulse repetition rate at which it is firing no = matter what voltage or wave shape of the trigger signal. On top of that, = a build in trigger indicator light works at much slower trigger signal = the coil actually fires, creating a deception when testing.=20 All that seem to be not a malfunction of one unit because I have two = units doing exactly the same thing.=20 Before I found out what is going on, I contacted MSD by phone and = was told to hook it up correctly, and if it does not fire send it back = to them. Later I sent in some more questions by email which were never = answered. Final solution! No CDY. Using two individual coils with a TSI = igniter each. No more low speed issues.=20 Installation on the test stand is complete, and will be tested in = the next two days. If nothing bad happens, installation in the airplane = will be competed in a couple of days. I hope this is not to confusing.=20 Richard Sohn N2071U www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html Congrats on finding the problem, but if it will fire at very low rpm, = you may have the same safety issues as magnetos. (Have to keep treating = the prop like a loaded gun...) I think Tracy codes a minimum rpm for = fire into his controller as a safety feature. Charlie You are right Charlie, this is a loded gun at this time. But I am not = ready to sell it, yet. Richard Sohn 8029 HWY 1087 DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433 ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01CCA189.86621C70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Charlie=20 England
Sent: Saturday, November 12, = 2011 10:12=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Am I=20 Alone??

On 11/12/2011 8:39 PM, Richard Sohn wrote:=20
I am desperately trying to get the = single rotor=20 running in the airplane. The engine on the test stand is = just=20 humming away, and when I tried the one in the airplane a couple of = weeks ago=20 it did not do anything.
No ignition!!!  cranking too = slow??? =20 starter cable too long??? CAS signal too weak??? 
The ignition fired when I = took the=20 plugs out of the rotor housing, but not when they were in the = housing.=20 The crank speed difference is 240 vs 320 RPM. The engine on the test = stand=20 is already so free that it does crank about 360RPM. Solution? Making = a=20 larger diameter trigger wheel to make up for the slower crank speed. = Turned=20 out to make no difference. What is going on?????.
My ignition system is a MSD Street = Fire unit.=20 At this point, I decided to have a closer look at the trigger=20 characteristics of this unit. After running it on the bench with all = sorts=20 of triggers, it turns out to require a  minimum pulse = repetition rate=20 at which it is firing no matter what voltage or wave shape of the = trigger=20 signal. On top of that, a build in trigger indicator light works at = much=20 slower trigger signal the coil actually fires, creating a = deception=20 when testing. 
All that seem to be not a = malfunction of one=20 unit because I have two units doing exactly the same thing. =
Before I found out what is going = on, I=20 contacted MSD by phone and was told to hook it up correctly, and if = it does=20 not fire send it back to them. Later I sent in some more questions = by email=20 which were never answered.
 
Final solution! No CDY. Using two = individual=20 coils with a TSI igniter each. No more low speed issues. =
 
Installation on the test stand is = complete, and=20 will be tested in the next two days. If nothing bad happens, = installation in=20 the airplane will be competed in a couple of days.
 
I hope this is not to = confusing.=20
 
Richard Sohn
N2071U
www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html
 
 
Congrats on finding the problem, but if it will fire at very low = rpm, you=20 may have the same safety issues as magnetos. (Have to keep treating = the prop=20 like a loaded gun...) I think Tracy codes a minimum rpm for fire into = his=20 controller as a safety feature.

Charlie
 
You are right Charlie, this is a = loded gun at=20 this time. But I am not ready to sell it, yet.
Richard Sohn
8029 HWY = 1087
DeFuniak=20 Springs, FL 32433
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