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Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:12:36 -0600
From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
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To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Am I Alone??
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On 11/12/2011 8:39 PM, Richard Sohn wrote:
> I am desperately trying to get the single rotor running in the 
> airplane. The engine on the test stand is just humming away, and when 
> I tried the one in the airplane a couple of weeks ago it did not do 
> anything.
> No ignition!!!  cranking too slow???  starter cable too long??? CAS 
> signal too weak???
> The ignition fired when I took the plugs out of the rotor housing, but 
> not when they were in the housing. The crank speed difference is 240 
> vs 320 RPM. The engine on the test stand is already so free that it 
> does crank about 360RPM. Solution? Making a larger diameter trigger 
> wheel to make up for the slower crank speed. Turned out to make no 
> difference. What is going on?????.
> My ignition system is a MSD Street Fire unit. At this point, I decided 
> to have a closer look at the trigger characteristics of this unit. 
> After running it on the bench with all sorts of triggers, it turns out 
> to require a  minimum pulse repetition rate at which it is firing no 
> matter what voltage or wave shape of the trigger signal. On top of 
> that, a build in trigger indicator light works at much slower trigger 
> signal the coil actually fires, creating a deception when testing.
> All that seem to be not a malfunction of one unit because I have two 
> units doing exactly the same thing.
> Before I found out what is going on, I contacted MSD by phone and was 
> told to hook it up correctly, and if it does not fire send it back to 
> them. Later I sent in some more questions by email which were never 
> answered.
> Final solution! No CDY. Using two individual coils with a TSI igniter 
> each. No more low speed issues.
> Installation on the test stand is complete, and will be tested in the 
> next two days. If nothing bad happens, installation in the airplane 
> will be competed in a couple of days.
> I hope this is not to confusing.
> Richard Sohn
> N2071U
> www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html 
> <http://www.fairpoint.net/%7Eres12/home.html>
Congrats on finding the problem, but if it will fire at very low rpm, 
you may have the same safety issues as magnetos. (Have to keep treating 
the prop like a loaded gun...) I think Tracy codes a minimum rpm for 
fire into his controller as a safety feature.

Charlie

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    On 11/12/2011 8:39 PM, Richard Sohn wrote:
    <blockquote cite="mid:list-5197720@logan.com" type="cite">
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      <div><font face="Arial" size="2">I am desperately trying to get
          the single rotor running in the airplane. The&nbsp;engine&nbsp;on the
          test stand is just humming away, and when I tried the one in
          the airplane a couple of weeks ago it did not do anything. </font></div>
      <div><font face="Arial" size="2">No ignition!!!&nbsp; cranking too
          slow???&nbsp; starter cable too long??? CAS signal too weak???&nbsp; </font></div>
      <div><font face="Arial" size="2">The&nbsp;ignition fired when I
          took&nbsp;the plugs&nbsp;out of the rotor housing, but not when they
          were in the housing. The crank speed difference is 240 vs 320
          RPM. The engine on the test stand is already so free that it
          does crank about 360RPM. Solution? Making a larger diameter
          trigger wheel to make up for the slower crank speed. Turned
          out to make no difference. What is going on?????. </font></div>
      <div><font face="Arial" size="2">My ignition system is a MSD
          Street Fire unit. At this point, I decided to have a closer
          look at the trigger characteristics of this unit. After
          running it on the bench with all sorts of triggers, it turns
          out to require a &nbsp;minimum pulse repetition rate at which it is
          firing no matter what voltage or wave shape of the trigger
          signal. On top of that, a build in trigger indicator light
          works at much slower trigger signal the coil&nbsp;actually fires,
          creating a deception when testing.&nbsp;</font></div>
      <div><font face="Arial" size="2">All that seem to be not a
          malfunction of one unit because I have two units doing exactly
          the same thing. </font></div>
      <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Before I found out what is going
          on, I contacted MSD by phone and was told to hook it up
          correctly, and if it does not fire send it back to them. Later
          I sent in some more questions by email which were never
          answered.</font></div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Final solution! No CDY. Using two
          individual coils with a TSI igniter each. No more low speed
          issues. </font></div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Installation on the test stand is
          complete, and will be tested in the next two days. If nothing
          bad happens, installation in the airplane will be competed in
          a couple of days.</font></div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div><font face="Arial" size="2">I hope this&nbsp;is not to confusing.
        </font></div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Richard Sohn<br>
          N2071U<br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://www.fairpoint.net/%7Eres12/home.html">www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html</a></font></div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
    </blockquote>
    Congrats on finding the problem, but if it will fire at very low
    rpm, you may have the same safety issues as magnetos. (Have to keep
    treating the prop like a loaded gun...) I think Tracy codes a
    minimum rpm for fire into his controller as a safety feature.<br>
    <br>
    Charlie<br>
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