X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm26-vm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.214] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5085762 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 14:51:04 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.214; envelope-from=roundrocktom@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.90.55] by nm26.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2011 18:50:28 -0000 Received: from [98.138.88.237] by tm8.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2011 18:50:28 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1037.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2011 18:50:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 395452.9888.bm@omp1037.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 2177 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Aug 2011 18:50:27 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1312829427; bh=e350uJO1ozC0BE+6H4K8GUnSojKdEovk8gp/RigJb64=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=nZ1meiAtnXVBh4OoLgom05t1T+dqnoC2iOuxuEBAEcMwXZ8zD51Vvd6+EkCYjvmBAUIlSkyhyj1NBG+fpAlfn4f+UFYsAg8eZbDzBy5h3ybpsQkpqxGMVtsfndXWHP/RN6wf9qvfjsRO6FV93ufv0PRVwh934GWd6KCgh9hk1sw= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=AUadKia29ilO3CVKQLmRo2wFI+heQOPN381e/keZOBT3b/mlh82RnmWQTLGsLhHq/WK9dExYmQWoQF9EiyOyGKd2aJIpchg6UYMar6ikSnIASLY0ma7tZ5G5w3KYK3LYWYK2QUPDU+XLzF5b7clryhPBAVfBaUiDPXKAR+hU/eQ=; X-YMail-OSG: yuOC2zYVM1nSJd6fSzkUWiZm4bmxP2ihR0oNCxdvMFJx1vS sKxNlUk16BT7fATwOud7D6I7AyU7SNnhLCyT24ceVVWRmU2NYEBe3BdHq12E j0PnpshzNL2TGU97ONykAFV_pD2nRlBoVpaaxnMiaX.xTVzoHXDhQqQoO1iO ZEpYBfEdLMIWY7gDOYYYQkg0kdJ7QD_nwf_6wS.7EpvnOlzpt9V8mVySpM2l WNPvgjP6J8snCJc9KrisDds0IemwjBaz5a19T_gEAv8yXKoR9J5pKOli5OgH OzQiGjrrV_wGi2kktVIav3dDivHCIXOMvEE0jVYz.cYpsEU50eaRdz_nVmkD KFjk_Jwj6BZSfWeQu5oxjkaJl6BTQlk.YJL96f9kh0f6Ot5Bx57PdLgeZ00C XklbMlO6Ps5FeN0.QE_tND6lrM8nlTGXiaBS_AG0SSMFy.KwqW_OBnTE58YB ZDjee7Ze9AasZBGwSS4J6uwcHavIcseEjBmIzmVIhzt9YixhAuOK_PmanVwY .Z3b2wqHjl8b_kZmrIQo4FSicEOzgZv3SL8.3Yg3YF2Namni4PgA7vTMb2mF d2TCABPIEInUjlL5O7XX51wsV11Wix2YgaXt517oWk5vbYzrm39_BeCWX7UI KL66trGAm4tOKQQ-- Received: from [216.52.185.73] by web111502.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:50:27 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.113.313619 References: Message-ID: <1312829427.85897.YahooMailNeo@web111502.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:50:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Walter Reply-To: Tom Walter Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Injector Mixing Plate To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1970694368-1819931110-1312829427=:85897" --1970694368-1819931110-1312829427=:85897 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob,=0A=0AJust to make sure we are on the same page, the things called "air= bleeds" on this page:=0Ahttp://www.mazdatrix.com/c-6.htm=0A=0AAs Ed pointe= d out, doesn't change the amount of fuel injected.=0A=0AFor emissions, the = hardest part is transient changes of throttle and manifold wetting.=0ASpray= fuel onto the manifold, and a wet puddle forms.=C2=A0 So the mixture might= be lean=0Aas fuel puddles, but lift of the throttle and high vacuum helps = suck in fuel. Nice and=0Arich for a few events.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Neither are ide= a for emission reasons.=C2=A0 =0A=0A=0AWith aircraft engines at a steady rp= m, not an issue.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =0A=0A=0ASo that is why the are there.=0A=0ATo= m Walter=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ed Ander= son =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Monday, August 8, 2011 11:13 AM=0ASubject: [FlyR= otary] Re: Injector Mixing Plate=0A=0A=0A =0AHi Bob,=0A=C2=A0=0AI have flow= with and without the plastic injector "mixing" =0Aplates - I truly fully c= ould not detect any measurable difference =0Awith/without.=C2=A0 The only t= hing I believe=C2=A0that might have been=C2=A0any =0Adifferent with the pla= tes=C2=A0- it seemed the engine started smoother and =0Aquicker on colder m= ornings.=0A=C2=A0=0ASince the mixing plate has no bearing on how much fuel = is =0Ainjected, but simply is to ensure better mixing of the primary inject= ors spray =0Awith the incoming air, I doubt they would make the engine run = leaner.=C2=A0 =0A=C2=A0=0AThey might possibly have some minor effect on air= flow (a =0Atiny bit of a restriction) possibly causing some perturbation - = but then that is =0Awhat it is intended to do in order to get quicker and b= etter fuel =0Aatomization.=C2=A0 Since the primary injectors have such a re= lative short path =0Abetween injector in intake port - I suspect the Mazda = engineers figured they =0Awould get slightly better fuel mileage with them.= =0A=C2=A0=0AFWIW=0A=C2=A0=0AEd=0A=C2=A0=0AEdward L. Anderson=0AAnderson Ele= ctronic Enterprises =0ALLC=0A305 Reefton Road=0AWeddington, NC 28104=0Ahttp= ://www.andersonee.com=0Ahttp://www.eicommander.com=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Rogers,= Bob J. =0ASent: Monday, August 08, 2011 10:33 AM=0ATo: Rotary motors in ai= rcraft =0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Injector Mixing Plate=0A=0AI have a 1987 Maz= da =0ATurbo 13B engine in my Mustang II kit plane.=C2=A0 The primary inject= ors in the center =0Ahousing are stock Nippon Denso 550 cc peak and hold.= =C2=A0 Below each injector is a plastic insert =0Acalled a =E2=80=9Cmixing = plate=E2=80=9D, which presumably disperses the fuel coming out of the =0Ain= jectors before entering the combustion chamber.=C2=A0 I am wondering if the= obstruction in =0Afuel flow caused by the grid on the mixing plate would m= ake the engine run lean =0Aat higher engine speed, such as 5,000 to 6, 000 = rpm.=C2=A0 If I used a different injector, such as =0Athe RC 550 cc (which = has a better spray pattern), can I eliminate the mixing =0Aplates? =C2=A0= =C2=A0What happens if I =0Akeep the stock injectors and just remove the mix= ing =0Aplate?=0A=C2=A0=0AI welcome comments from =0Aanyone on the list, but= hopefully, racing Guru Lynn Hanover can shed some light =0Aon my questions= .=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks,=0A=C2=A0=0ABob J. =0ARogers=0AN62BT --1970694368-1819931110-1312829427=:85897 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob,

Just to make sure= we are on the same page, the things called "air bleeds" on this page:
http://www.mazdatrix.com/c-6.htm

As Ed pointed out, doesn't change the amount of= fuel injected.

For emis= sions, the hardest part is transient changes of throttle and manifold wetti= ng.
Spray fuel onto the manifold, and a wet puddle f= orms.  So the mixture might be lean
as fuel pud= dles, but lift of the throttle and high vacuum helps suck in fuel. Nice and=
rich for a few events.   Neither are idea= for emission reasons. 

With aircraft engi= nes at a steady rpm, not an issue.  

So that is why the are there.
=
Tom Walter




=
From: Ed Anders= on <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
Sent: Monday, Augu= st 8, 2011 11:13 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Injector Mixing Plate

=0A=0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A
Hi Bob,
=0A
 
=0A
I have flow with and without the plastic injector "mixing" =0Ap= lates - I truly fully could not detect any measurable difference =0Awith/wi= thout.  The only thing I believe that might have been any = =0Adifferent with the plates - it seemed the engine started smoother a= nd =0Aquicker on colder mornings.
=0A
=  
=0A
Since the mixing plate has = no bearing on how much fuel is =0Ainjected, but simply is to ensure better = mixing of the primary injectors spray =0Awith the incoming air, I doubt the= y would make the engine run leaner.  =0A
=0A
 
=0A
They might poss= ibly have some minor effect on airflow (a =0Atiny bit of a restriction) pos= sibly causing some perturbation - but then that is =0Awhat it is intended t= o do in order to get quicker and better fuel =0Aatomization.  Since th= e primary injectors have such a relative short path =0Abetween injector in = intake port - I suspect the Mazda engineers figured they =0Awould get sligh= tly better fuel mileage with them.
=0A
 
=0A
FWIW
=0A
<= font face=3D"Arial"> 
=0A
Ed
=0A
 
=0A
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises =0ALLC
= 305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
= h= ttp://www.eicommander.com
=0A
=0A

=0A
=0A=0A
<= b>Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 10:33 AM
=0A=0A
Subject: [FlyRotary] Injector Mixing Plate
=0A

=0A
=0A
I have = a 1987 Mazda =0ATurbo 13B engine in my Mustang II kit plane.  The primary injectors in the center =0Ahousing are stock Ni= ppon Denso 550 cc peak and hold.  Below each i= njector is a plastic insert =0Acalled a =E2=80=9Cmixing plate=E2=80=9D, whi= ch presumably disperses the fuel coming out of the =0Ainjectors before ente= ring the combustion chamber.  I am wondering i= f the obstruction in =0Afuel flow caused by the grid on the mixing plate wo= uld make the engine run lean =0Aat higher engine speed, such as 5,000 to 6,= 000 rpm.  If I used a different injector, suc= h as =0Athe RC 550 cc (which has a better spray pattern), can I eliminate t= he mixing =0Aplates?   What happens if I = =0Akeep the stock injectors and just remove the mixing =0Aplate?
=0A
 
=0A
I welcome comments from =0Aanyone on th= e list, but hopefully, racing Guru Lynn Hanover can shed some light =0Aon m= y questions.
=0A
<= font color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">  
=0A
= Thanks,=
=0A
 
=0A
Bob J. =0ARogers =0A
N62BT
=0A


= --1970694368-1819931110-1312829427=:85897--