X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from pacmmta52.windstream.net ([162.39.147.111] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4987932 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 18 May 2011 18:29:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=162.39.147.111; envelope-from=jskmberki@windstream.net Return-Path: X-WS-COS: WSOB804 X-Cloudmark-Category: Undefined:Undefined X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=sz3jzN34E+P741yhIqjkxK7Mvzu79nK0J+vHdFMT82g= c=1 sm=0 a=v3Lj2-D6UPAA:10 a=UT_QgiwtmQIA:10 a=DePWRI7QV5WIXJ14A5MA:9 a=EX_AcEmQKRVqRhJinRoA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=J7JQ77breM4GhsozNR0A:9 a=dDq_Yh1n1a5cXkQFrEYA:7 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=djSSOgbfo6cA:10 a=NoyXnI0gnEm4PldU3KqkqA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 Authentication-Results: pacmmta52 smtp.user=jskmberki; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [174.130.109.230] ([174.130.109.230:2147] helo=joehomepc) by pacmmta52 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.45 r()) with ESMTPA id 74/22-24640-F2844DD4; Wed, 18 May 2011 18:29:03 -0400 Message-ID: <009b01cc15ab$4abf8c80$01fea8c0@joehomepc> From: "josrph berki" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Reliably starting Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:31:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0098_01CC1589.C3660E10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2001 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2001 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01CC1589.C3660E10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ernest, Thanks, I have looked at the various megasquirt sites but have you found = one that provides one with how to make it work in an aircraft = application? What signals / sensors should be used and with those that = are not, what do you do with the sensor hardware or software to not use = that particuliar sensor? =20 I am using a P Port and will most likely have to average the MAP via = hooking the oil injector ports together through an orifice. I also had a MAF in the intake system but may have to take it out. Did you choose the EDIS because you have a way to back it up? I will have to use a trigger wheel on the Eshaft because I eliminated = the CAS due to space constraints under the cowl. If you have backup then I guess any system will work. Do you have any info on how to make the EDIS work on the rotary? Appreciate any input. Joe Berki ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ernest Christley=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 6:02 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Reliably starting On 05/18/2011 05:21 PM, josrph berki wrote:=20 Ernest, Will you be running Megasquirt for flight or is it a gound = development tool? Do you have any words of wisdom for someone = contemplating Megasquirt? I would really like to see an electronic = analog injection / ignition system developed. Software that controls = the engine scares me. Thanks for any help. Analog injection/ignition systems scare me. Well...not really. All = software systems are analog underneath. I will be flying with the MegaSquirt, but I can throw it a lot further = than I trust it. But, that is ok. The goal is do design the system so = that it fails gracefully. The MS gives an incredible amount of = flexibility and configuration control. It is REALLY nice to have. So I = take the benefits, but have backup(s). =20 If the MS quits on me for some reason one day, I have a 3/16" line = plumbed to the throttle body with a needle valve sitting next to me in = the cockpit. I've already verified that on the ground, with gas barely = covering the bottom of the tank, I get flow to the throttle body. I'd = probably never be able to get the engine started with this setup using = the starter, but with the wind still spinning the prop I will be able to = slowly open the valve till I can maintain altitude. Then I can make for = the longest runway I can find. That's good for fuel, but what about spark? I'm having the MegaSquirt = control EDIS ignition control modules. The EDIS handles all the VR = pickup, dwell and other such details. These things have proven to be = very solid performers during a decade of use. All MS is doing is = getting a tach signal from the EDIS, and sending back a signal to = control advance. Two wire interface. If the EDIS looses communication = with the MS, it falls back to its limp-home mode which is 10*BTDC. I = shifted the VR so that I actually get 25*. But, that just shifts the = critical failure from the MS to the EDIS. I don't have it wired up yet, = but eventually I will have two EDIS modules running, one on Leading and = one on Trailing. The second will have its own power source, driven by = the distributor shaft. =20 Sure, power will degraded if all I have is the trailing plugs and I'm = dumping fuel into the throttle body instead of a proper spray, but it = isn't meant to be a normal mode of operation. It is meant to get me = past the crash site. I don't have to be scared of the software, because = I'm not hanging my life on it. The only other advice I have is buy one of the MS3s. They have a USB = interface, and can datalog directly to a flash card. I'm stuck with an = MS2 for now. Because of that, I have to use a 15yr old laptop, because = it is the only one I have that has a serial port. ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01CC1589.C3660E10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ernest,
 
Thanks, I have looked at the various = megasquirt=20 sites but have you found one that provides one with how to make it work = in an=20 aircraft application?  What signals / sensors should be used and=20 with those that are not, what do you do with the sensor hardware or = software to not use that particuliar sensor? 
I am using a P Port and will most = likely have to=20 average the MAP via hooking the oil injector ports together through an=20 orifice.
 
I also had a MAF in the intake system = but may have=20 to take it out.
 
Did you choose the EDIS because you = have a way to=20 back it up?
 
I will have to use a trigger wheel on = the Eshaft=20 because I eliminated the CAS due to space constraints under the=20 cowl.
 
If you have backup then I guess any = system will=20 work.
 
Do you have any info on how to make the = EDIS work=20 on the rotary?
 
Appreciate any input.
 
Joe Berki
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ernest=20 Christley
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 = 6:02=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Reliably=20 starting

On 05/18/2011 05:21 PM, josrph berki wrote:=20
Ernest,
 
Will you be running Megasquirt for = flight or is=20 it a gound development tool?  Do you have any words of wisdom = for=20 someone contemplating Megasquirt?  I would really like to see = an=20 electronic analog injection / ignition system developed.  = Software that=20 controls the engine scares me.  Thanks for any=20 help.


Analog injection/ignition = systems scare=20 me.  Well...not really.  All software systems are analog=20 underneath.

I will be flying with the MegaSquirt, but I can = throw it a=20 lot further than I trust it.  But, that is ok.  The goal is = do=20 design the system so that it fails gracefully.  The MS gives an=20 incredible amount of flexibility and configuration control.  It = is REALLY=20 nice to have.  So I take the benefits, but have backup(s). =20

If the MS quits on me for some reason one day, I have a 3/16" = line=20 plumbed to the throttle body with a needle valve sitting next to me in = the=20 cockpit.  I've already verified that on the ground, with gas = barely=20 covering the bottom of the tank, I get flow to the throttle = body.  I'd=20 probably never be able to get the engine started with this setup using = the=20 starter, but with the wind still spinning the prop I will be able to = slowly=20 open the valve till I can maintain altitude.  Then I can make for = the=20 longest runway I can find.

That's good for fuel, but what about = spark?  I'm having the MegaSquirt control EDIS ignition control=20 modules.  The EDIS handles  all the VR pickup, dwell and = other such=20 details.  These things have proven to be very solid performers = during a=20 decade of use.  All MS is doing is getting a tach signal from the = EDIS,=20 and sending back a signal to control advance.  Two wire = interface. =20 If the EDIS looses communication with the MS, it falls back to its = limp-home=20 mode which is 10*BTDC.  I shifted the VR so that I actually get=20 25*.  But, that just shifts the critical failure from the MS to = the=20 EDIS.  I don't have it wired up yet, but eventually I will have = two EDIS=20 modules running, one on Leading and one on Trailing.  The second = will=20 have its own power source, driven by the distributor shaft. =20

Sure, power will degraded if all I have is the trailing plugs = and I'm=20 dumping fuel into the throttle body instead of a proper spray, but it = isn't=20 meant to be a normal mode of operation.  It is meant to get me = past the=20 crash site.  I don't have to be scared of the software, because = I'm not=20 hanging my life on it.

The only other advice I have is buy one = of the=20 MS3s.  They have a USB interface, and can datalog directly to a = flash=20 card.  I'm stuck with an MS2 for now.  Because of that, I = have to=20 use a 15yr old laptop, because it is the only one I have that has a = serial=20 port.
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