X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4987430 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 18 May 2011 10:14:53 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=aeMH4JcVOnVr0LmJAzqEvfnmJyuaZufWdlng4HTRGCk= c=1 sm=0 a=L3uV8vxC_ysA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=EFJP3Or8RurNk0IicTcA:9 a=PurdQyjUzG1uISKCnCkA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=at0Q5_2dr5wA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=bYCErxBTja7efk7n:21 a=IbtfGkbkYB-X2BsN:21 a=s3Z1pKZMWPZOP7gKWFUA:9 a=tNVj79czHcN6j3oj6HAA:7 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:62608] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id EE/6F-03893-834D3DD4; Wed, 18 May 2011 14:14:17 +0000 Message-ID: <3C962D0BFD7D4CF0BFECAFBA395FED85@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Stumble/Bog at Staging: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 10:14:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CC1544.53C59980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CC1544.53C59980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian, I used to stumble/bog through the staging point and I also found I had = to increase the richeness of bins around the staging point to preclude = the bog. However, As Steve and Tracy have pointed out it is possible = to adjust for the "mismatched" flow across the staging point by using = mode 6. This adjusts the differential flow between the primary and = secondary injectors. Tracy and Steve both have explained in more detail = how to do this, so I won't try to repeat it here. Using the method you and I both used, there is going to be an increase = in the MAP table around your staging point and again, you considerably = different in flow rates between primary and secondary may require a = different profile in your MAP table - I just don't know. Ed From: bktrub@aol.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 9:57 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Yes, it does look like a steep jump, although I arrived at that through = a lot of engine running and found that it allows a smooth transition = through the staging point. Otherwise, it would always stumble throught = that point. I'll do some more engine runs and keep my eye on the O2 = sensor. Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 5:05 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Hello Brian, I put your values into a graph last night. I had the same=20 conclusion as Ed's reply below that you are probably too rich at the top = end ...=20 also your transition from lean to rich in the 82-84 BIN area is too = steep 12-76=20 from one BIN to the next at staging is questionableMy thou graphed your was thinking the same as Ed after I From: bktrub@aol.com Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Your Fuel Map: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 00:02:01 -0400 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Ok, that is interesting. I forgot to mention that I am running 28 lb = primaries=20 and 40 lb secondaries. Looks like I will be doing some more setting of = the=20 tables and experimentation. I do have an O2 sensor and monitor, so I'll be looking at that also. Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 8:28 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Your Fuel Map: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Hi Brian, I have my fuel MAP values and comments (in blue) buried in your spread = sheet. =20 IF I had to make a stab at this point and quick look, I would say you = are=20 probably running excessively rich at your higher map values > bin = pointer 75 <=20 bin pointer 103. See my notes. I took my MAP values (turbo block = street ported=20 - good intake - no turbo) and converted them to your reference - that = column is=20 in blue is my value for direct comparison with yours. Some places we = different=20 but it probably doesn't really matter - in other areas where we differ, = you are=20 running considerably richer than my engine. I have the 2.84:1 gear box swinging a 74x88 prop and consistently get = 6000 rpm=20 static on a normal day and can get up to 6200 on a colder day. My fuel = flow=20 will range from 16.5-18 GPH on take off and has hit 20 GPH on a cold = day. I use=20 a 91 Turbo block street ported sans turbocharger. I have a fairly = decent intake=20 system (about the sixth version - so I did quite a bit of = experimentation to get=20 it right and I think it's a pretty descent intake) Do you have an air/fuel ratio indicator? If so I suggest you run your = engine at=20 some of those bin numbers and record what it is telling you (lean, = Medium Rich,=20 etc). While at higher Manifold pressure you do want an air/fuel ratio = running=20 closer to 12.5:1, I suspect your air/fuel ratio may be even richer than = that. =20 Now all of these comments apply to bin/manifold pressures in the = non-boosted=20 range < bin 103 or so. Take a look at my notes - it is possible your problem could be too rich. = Too=20 much fuel in your mufflers getting ignited can certainly produce a loud = bang. =20 Perhaps ignition could also cause it, but right now it appears to me you = are=20 simply way too rich between bins 75-103. If you have an air/fuel ratio=20 indicator, I would try reducing the mixture in those areas. Hope this helps Ed __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature=20 database 6131 (20110518) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature=20 database 6131 (20110518) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for = the=20 addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any=20 unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received = this=20 message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct = our=20 internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CC1544.53C59980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Brian,
 
I used to stumble/bog through the staging point = and I also=20 found I had to increase the richeness of bins around the staging point = to=20 preclude the bog.   However, As Steve and Tracy have pointed = out it is=20 possible to adjust for the "mismatched" flow across the staging point by = using=20 mode 6.  This adjusts the differential flow between the primary and = secondary injectors.  Tracy and Steve both have explained in more = detail=20 how to do this, so I won't try to repeat it here.
 
Using the method you and I both used, there is = going to be=20 an increase in the MAP table around your staging point and again, you=20 considerably different in flow rates between primary and secondary may = require a=20 different profile in your MAP table - I just don't know.
 
Ed

Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 9:57 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning

Yes, it does look like = a steep=20 jump, although I arrived at that through a lot of engine running and = found that=20 it allows a smooth transition through the staging point. Otherwise, it = would=20 always stumble throught that point. I'll do some more engine runs and = keep my=20 eye on the O2 sensor.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com>
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, May = 18,=20 2011 5:05 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning

Hello Brian, I put your values into a graph =
last night.  I had the same=20
conclusion as Ed's reply below that you are probably too rich at the top =
end ...=20
also your transition from lean to rich in the 82-84 BIN area is too =
steep 12-76=20
from one BIN to the next at staging is questionableMy thou
graphed your was thinking the same as Ed after I


From: bktrub@aol.com
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Your Fuel Map: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 00:02:01 -0400
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net




Ok, that is interesting. I forgot to mention that I am running 28 lb =
primaries=20
and 40 lb secondaries. Looks like I will be doing some more setting of =
the=20
tables and experimentation.

I do have an O2 sensor and monitor, so I'll be looking at that also.

Brian Trubee





-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g=
t;
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 8:28 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Your Fuel Map: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning


Hi Brian,

I have my fuel MAP values and comments (in blue) buried in your spread =
sheet. =20
IF I had to make a stab at this point and quick look, I would say you =
are=20
probably running excessively rich at your higher map values > bin =
pointer 75 <=20
bin pointer 103.  See my notes.  I took my MAP values (turbo block =
street ported=20
- good intake - no turbo) and converted them to your reference - that =
column is=20
in blue is my value for direct comparison with yours.  Some places we =
different=20
but it probably doesn't really matter - in other areas where we differ, =
you are=20
running considerably richer than my engine.

I have the 2.84:1 gear box swinging a 74x88 prop and consistently get =
6000 rpm=20
static on a normal day and can get up to 6200 on a colder day.  My fuel =
flow=20
will range from 16.5-18 GPH on take off and has hit 20 GPH on a cold =
day. I use=20
a 91 Turbo block street ported sans turbocharger.  I have a fairly =
decent intake=20
system (about the sixth version - so I did quite a bit of =
experimentation to get=20
it right and I think it's a pretty descent intake)

Do you have an air/fuel ratio indicator?  If so I suggest you run your =
engine at=20
some of those bin numbers and record what it is telling you (lean, =
Medium Rich,=20
etc).  While at higher Manifold pressure you do want an air/fuel ratio =
running=20
closer to 12.5:1, I suspect your air/fuel ratio may be even richer than =
that. =20
Now all of these comments apply to bin/manifold pressures in the =
non-boosted=20
range < bin 103 or so.

Take a look at my notes - it is possible your problem could be too rich. =
 Too=20
much fuel in your mufflers getting ignited can certainly produce a loud =
bang. =20
Perhaps ignition could also cause it, but right now it appears to me you =
are=20
simply way too rich between bins 75-103.  If you have an air/fuel ratio=20
indicator, I would try reducing the mixture in those areas.

Hope this helps

Ed



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus =
signature=20
database 6131 (20110518) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus =
signature=20
database 6131 (20110518) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for =
the=20
addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any=20
unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received =
this=20
message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct =
our=20
internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
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