X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.39] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4987437 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 18 May 2011 09:58:30 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.39; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p4IDvjQG029273 for ; Wed, 18 May 2011 09:57:45 -0400 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.f52.10cfe427 (44630) for ; Wed, 18 May 2011 09:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-dc01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dc01.mx.aol.com [205.188.170.1]) by cia-mc01.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC013-d1c34dd3d050312; Wed, 18 May 2011 09:57:40 -0400 Received: from webmail-d134 (webmail-d134.sim.aol.com [149.174.18.24]) by smtprly-dc01.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDC014-d1c34dd3d050312; Wed, 18 May 2011 09:57:36 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:57:36 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 50.46.100.112 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CDE37AAD356797_1CC0_35866_webmail-d134.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33668-STANDARD Received: from 50.46.100.112 by webmail-d134.sysops.aol.com (149.174.18.24) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 18 May 2011 09:57:36 -0400 Message-Id: <8CDE37AAD24BDE9-1CC0-27624@webmail-d134.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CDE37AAD356797_1CC0_35866_webmail-d134.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes, it does look like a steep jump, although I arrived at that through a= lot of engine running and found that it allows a smooth transition throug= h the staging point. Otherwise, it would always stumble throught that poin= t. I'll do some more engine runs and keep my eye on the O2 sensor. Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 5:05 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Hello Brian, I put your values into a graph last night. I had the same=20 onclusion as Ed's reply below that you are probably too rich at the top en= d ...=20 lso your transition from lean to rich in the 82-84 BIN area is too steep= 12-76=20 rom one BIN to the next at staging is questionableMy thou raphed your was thinking the same as Ed after I rom: bktrub@aol.com ubject: Re: [FlyRotary] Your Fuel Map: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning ate: Wed, 18 May 2011 00:02:01 -0400 o: flyrotary@lancaironline.net k, that is interesting. I forgot to mention that I am running 28 lb primar= ies=20 nd 40 lb secondaries. Looks like I will be doing some more setting of the= =20 ables and experimentation. I do have an O2 sensor and monitor, so I'll be looking at that also. Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- rom: Ed Anderson o: Rotary motors in aircraft ent: Tue, May 17, 2011 8:28 pm ubject: [FlyRotary] Your Fuel Map: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning i Brian, I have my fuel MAP values and comments (in blue) buried in your spread she= et. =20 F I had to make a stab at this point and quick look, I would say you are= =20 robably running excessively rich at your higher map values > bin pointer= 75 <=20 in pointer 103. See my notes. I took my MAP values (turbo block street= ported=20 good intake - no turbo) and converted them to your reference - that colum= n is=20 n blue is my value for direct comparison with yours. Some places we diffe= rent=20 ut it probably doesn't really matter - in other areas where we differ, you= are=20 unning considerably richer than my engine. I have the 2.84:1 gear box swinging a 74x88 prop and consistently get 6000= rpm=20 tatic on a normal day and can get up to 6200 on a colder day. My fuel flo= w=20 ill range from 16.5-18 GPH on take off and has hit 20 GPH on a cold day.= I use=20 91 Turbo block street ported sans turbocharger. I have a fairly decent= intake=20 ystem (about the sixth version - so I did quite a bit of experimentation= to get=20 t right and I think it's a pretty descent intake) Do you have an air/fuel ratio indicator? If so I suggest you run your eng= ine at=20 ome of those bin numbers and record what it is telling you (lean, Medium= Rich,=20 tc). While at higher Manifold pressure you do want an air/fuel ratio runn= ing=20 loser to 12.5:1, I suspect your air/fuel ratio may be even richer than tha= t. =20 ow all of these comments apply to bin/manifold pressures in the non-booste= d=20 ange < bin 103 or so. Take a look at my notes - it is possible your problem could be too rich.= Too=20 uch fuel in your mufflers getting ignited can certainly produce a loud ban= g. =20 erhaps ignition could also cause it, but right now it appears to me you ar= e=20 imply way too rich between bins 75-103. If you have an air/fuel ratio=20 ndicator, I would try reducing the mixture in those areas. Hope this helps Ed __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatu= re=20 atabase 6131 (20110518) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e=20 atabase 6131 (20110518) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com his message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the= =20 ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any=20 nauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this= =20 essage in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our= =20 nternal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. -- omepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ rchive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html ----------MB_8CDE37AAD356797_1CC0_35866_webmail-d134.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Yes, it does look like a= steep jump, although I arrived at that through a lot of engine running an= d found that it allows a smooth transition through the staging point. Othe= rwise, it would always stumble throught that point. I'll do some more engi= ne runs and keep my eye on the O2 sensor.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 5:05 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning

Hel=
lo Brian, I put your values into a graph last night.  I had the same=20
conclusion as Ed's reply below that you are probably too rich at the top=
 end ...=20
also your transition from lean to rich in the 82-84 BIN area is too steep=
 12-76=20
from one BIN to the next at staging is questionableMy thou
graphed your was thinking the same as Ed after I


From: bktrub@aol.com
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Your Fuel Map: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 00:02:01 -0400
To: flyrotary@lancaironline=
.net




Ok, that is interesting. I forgot to mention that I am running 28 lb prima=
ries=20
and 40 lb secondaries. Looks like I will be doing some more setting of the=
=20
tables and experimentation.

I do have an O2 sensor and monitor, so I'll be looking at that also.

Brian Trubee





-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanders=
on@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 8:28 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Your Fuel Map: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning


Hi Brian,

I have my fuel MAP values and comments (in blue) buried in your spread she=
et. =20
IF I had to make a stab at this point and quick look, I would say you are=
=20
probably running excessively rich at your higher map values > bin point=
er 75 <=20
bin pointer 103.  See my notes.  I took my MAP values (turbo block street=
 ported=20
- good intake - no turbo) and converted them to your reference - that colu=
mn is=20
in blue is my value for direct comparison with yours.  Some places we diff=
erent=20
but it probably doesn't really matter - in other areas where we differ, yo=
u are=20
running considerably richer than my engine.

I have the 2.84:1 gear box swinging a 74x88 prop and consistently get 6000=
 rpm=20
static on a normal day and can get up to 6200 on a colder day.  My fuel fl=
ow=20
will range from 16.5-18 GPH on take off and has hit 20 GPH on a cold day.=
 I use=20
a 91 Turbo block street ported sans turbocharger.  I have a fairly decent=
 intake=20
system (about the sixth version - so I did quite a bit of experimentation=
 to get=20
it right and I think it's a pretty descent intake)

Do you have an air/fuel ratio indicator?  If so I suggest you run your eng=
ine at=20
some of those bin numbers and record what it is telling you (lean, Medium=
 Rich,=20
etc).  While at higher Manifold pressure you do want an air/fuel ratio run=
ning=20
closer to 12.5:1, I suspect your air/fuel ratio may be even richer than th=
at. =20
Now all of these comments apply to bin/manifold pressures in the non-boost=
ed=20
range < bin 103 or so.

Take a look at my notes - it is possible your problem could be too rich.=
  Too=20
much fuel in your mufflers getting ignited can certainly produce a loud ba=
ng. =20
Perhaps ignition could also cause it, but right now it appears to me you=
 are=20
simply way too rich between bins 75-103.  If you have an air/fuel ratio=20
indicator, I would try reducing the mixture in those areas.

Hope this helps

Ed



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatu=
re=20
database 6131 (20110518) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatu=
re=20
database 6131 (20110518) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the=
=20
addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any=20
unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this=
=20
message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our=
=20
internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.
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