X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4986967 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 17 May 2011 23:33:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=2lq4+qobG88tJFkiXmxSLStFAwyj+PriBwHB+7DDebs= c=1 sm=0 a=wvmIAgwx8J0A:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=fDBIiP2i_769bPsMzHsA:9 a=5ZR0hvSJrPHAw2B3RjoA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=zE8qc83Jyl2l3Lpf:21 a=RJFUn4Vw5LLFOaIR:21 a=6vO5Smf2D_guvmi825MA:9 a=JcRoUwcxjDOe6nXKVfMA:7 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:61295] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 2A/03-17273-1DD33DD4; Wed, 18 May 2011 03:32:33 +0000 Message-ID: <208FBB5F04534F5AA0525F2E66DE0116@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 23:32:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01CC14EA.B000B180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01CC14EA.B000B180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Right - that will happen. Unless you are running boost you manifold = pressure will be no higher (and generally 1/2" or so lower) than the = ambient pressure. At 8000 MSL that's generally around 21-22 inches Hg = for me. I generally cruise with WOT and adjust my mixture to give me = the speed/fuel flow I want. See my notes and comments to your fuel map - I think you may be running = a bit rich in that region - at least compared to my fuel MAP Ed From: bktrub@aol.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 8:42 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Thinking on it a bit, I realized that what would probably happen at WOT = when flying as opposed to a ground run, is that my mp is going to = decrease from 29.1 to a somewhat lower value, since the RPMs will = increase up to ~6800 or so, up from the 5200 at static WOT. So, I would = be running at a lower MAP address than the 106 that I see at WOT static. = So, should I not richen the MAP values BELOW 106, and a few adresses = above it since I should see a little gain in mp due to the ram effect of = my air scoop? Brian Trubee =20 -----Original Message----- From: bktrub@aol.com To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 4:49 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Ed, Attached is my map table as of today after I tuned it tied down on the = ground. I have a 93 13BREW that is normally aspirated, it has 9.1/1 = compression, swinging a catto 74 dia x 88 pitch prop through a 2.85/1 = PSRU. This EC2 is set up to accomodate turbo engines, so I have = addresses that go up to 38 inHg. They are not used. I generally idle at MAP address 11 mp of 14.9 inHg. at around 1600rpm. = This is a 60 degree day at barometer setting of 30.3. Advancing the = throttle, the EC2 switches over to the high RPM table at MAP address 17 = (mp 17.2), going straight to address 80. My staging point is 84 (mp = 19.1) from there up to full throttle, MAP address 106 mp 29.1, the = transition is smooth. At full throttle on the ground I'm getting 5200 = RPM. When I go much past that RPM on takeoff, that's when the missing = starts. I'm still guessing that I need to richen up the mixture in the = addresses above 106.=20 Any input from anyone on this would be appreciated. Brian Trubee =20 -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 3:18 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning Brian, what values do you have in your fuel map around 90-105? I have = values of 172 for WOT and at times (cool OAT) I have to enrichen the = mixture beyond that with the manual mixture control Ed From: bktrub@aol.com=20 Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Engine Tuning Since the weather has been cooperating lately, I've had the opportunity = to put a few more hours on the airplane. On the ground, I can go from an = idle up to full throttle and the engine will be smooth. But when I take = off, it seems that as soon as I'm up a few hundred feet off the runway, = I get hellacious backfiring at full throttle. I can mitigate it a bit by = throttling back to about 5100 rpm, and turning the mixture knob to near = full rich. It's getting to be a bit nerve wracking to take off thinking = I've got it smoothed out and then get a series of hand grenades going = off under my butt. I'm thinking that I'm still running too lean up at = map address 106 or so. So, I go into the edit page and richen up the = mixture around those addresses. I think I'm creeping up on smooth full = throttle running. The good news is that my coolant runs at 175 degrees and oil at less- so = the cooling is more than effective, I just need to close up my air inlet = a bit or restrict the outflow. Brian Trubee =3D=20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01CC14EA.B000B180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Right - that will happen.  Unless you are = running=20 boost you manifold pressure will be no higher (and generally 1/2" or so = lower)=20 than the ambient pressure.  At 8000 MSL that's generally around = 21-22=20 inches Hg for me.  I generally cruise with WOT and adjust my = mixture to=20 give me the speed/fuel flow I want.
See my notes and comments to your fuel map - I = think you=20 may be running a bit rich in that region - at least compared to my fuel=20 MAP
 
Ed
 

From: bktrub@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 8:42 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning

Thinking on it a bit, I = realized=20 that what would probably happen at WOT when flying as opposed to a = ground run,=20 is that my mp is going to decrease from 29.1  to a somewhat lower = value,=20 since the RPMs will increase up to ~6800 or so, up from the 5200 at = static WOT.=20 So, I would be running at a lower MAP address than the 106 that I see at = WOT=20 static. So, should I not richen the MAP values BELOW 106, and a few = adresses=20 above it since I should see a little gain in mp due to the ram effect of = my air=20 scoop?
 
Brian Trubee
 


 


-----Original=20 Message-----
From: bktrub@aol.com
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 4:49=20 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning

Ed,
Attached is my map table as of today after I tuned it tied down =  on=20 the ground. I have a 93 13BREW that is normally aspirated, it has 9.1/1=20 compression, swinging a catto 74 dia x 88 pitch prop through a 2.85/1 = PSRU. This=20 EC2 is set up to accomodate turbo engines, so I have addresses that = go up=20 to 38 inHg. They are  not used.
 
 I generally idle at MAP address 11 mp of 14.9 inHg. at = around=20 1600rpm. This is a 60 degree day at barometer setting of 30.3. Advancing = the=20 throttle, the EC2 switches over to the high RPM table at = MAP address 17 (mp=20 17.2), going straight to address 80. My staging point is 84 (mp 19.1) = from there=20 up to full throttle, MAP address 106 mp 29.1, the transition is smooth. = At full=20 throttle on the ground I'm getting 5200 RPM. When I go much past that = RPM on=20 takeoff, that's when the missing starts. I'm still guessing that I need = to=20 richen up the mixture in the addresses above 106.
 
Any input from anyone on this would be appreciated.
 
Brian Trubee
 


 


-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:=20 Fri, May 13, 2011 3:18 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine = Tuning

 Brian, what values do you have in your = fuel map=20 around 90-105?   I have values of 172 for WOT and at times = (cool OAT)=20 I have to enrichen the mixture beyond that with the manual mixture=20 control
 
Ed

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:35 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Engine Tuning


Since the weather has been cooperating lately, I've had the = opportunity=20 to put a few more hours on the airplane. On the ground, I can go from an = idle up=20 to full throttle and the engine will be smooth. But when I take off, it = seems=20 that as soon as I'm up a few hundred feet off the runway, I get = hellacious=20 backfiring at full throttle. I can mitigate it a bit by throttling back = to about=20 5100 rpm, and turning the mixture knob to near full rich. It's getting = to be a=20 bit nerve wracking to take off thinking I've got it smoothed out and = then get a=20 series of hand grenades going off under my butt. I'm thinking that I'm = still=20 running too lean up at map address 106 or so. So, I go into the edit = page and=20 richen up the mixture around those addresses. I think I'm creeping up on = smooth=20 full throttle running.
 
The good news is that my coolant runs at 175 degrees and oil at = less- so=20 the cooling is more than effective, I just need to close up my air inlet = a bit=20 or restrict the outflow.
 
Brian Trubee
=3D = 
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