X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com ([209.85.161.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTPS id 4983747 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 14 May 2011 19:36:14 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so2415915fxm.25 for ; Sat, 14 May 2011 16:35:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=FGkDLrP0Drasojo5bt1a+IMnnU+BkktlXNpl5Y9vzMk=; b=tiflIdo0/iE91zWRNC9GKU2ugV15K0gTYYV+C3Q2MqJDRhhZxF2Q/uM7/YjiGbTr6O 0boC3WIfKXT64/idziFF5y9bgQfT9e+P8VB713+4GHfrd8L5Pwy5tgvd4ajOKnIImT05 0LVH4mwANZjWfvvCfAbwu6AFoSXvX8uI7/nOw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Uorhq9JoDm6vPcsR0ZjzFX0gHtRoSl/h42t7hiiIZJJhsq+f3eZgqAf7a5I1vinFl3 cRttXQNfON6oe/bwzhSfwpL6hblkIsAKOU/NfLEcfJQorlEDQOjy8SzD5+fCar+zbGFs B4Thl6r+Ot4l0Dol8t/wI3VedPTtXHLpWyU3E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.24.72 with SMTP id u8mr80956fab.10.1305416138976; Sat, 14 May 2011 16:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.96.79 with HTTP; Sat, 14 May 2011 16:35:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 18:35:38 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151747354c3f73eb04a344e19f --00151747354c3f73eb04a344e19f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian, My ignition problem was only evident at 5800 rpm and up. It ran fine below 5800. I could get there on the ground since I have an adjustable prop. Maybe you could borrow a smaller prop so you could replicate the problem o= n the ground? Mark On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 6:31 PM, wrote: > I've got the crank angle sensor mounted on the crank pulley. I don't have= a > scope, but even if I did, the problem only seems to happen at or near WOT= on > climbout and in flight. I can run the engine wide open on the ground and > cannot get the backfiring that I get in the air. There must be enough of = a > difference in engine loading to cause the problem, so I tend to think it'= s > not ignition, because if it were, I would be getting the same problem on = the > ground. > > > > Brian Trubee > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Steitle > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 11:21 am > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning > > Brian, > > A number of us in the rotary group have had ignition issues with the > EC-2. I fought it for over a year, not sure if it was ignition, tuning, = or > a little of both. It was running pretty good, then I had the brilliant i= dea > to switch the 20B's CAS over to a Renesis style CAS (mounted on the cran= k > pulley). Apparently, the 20B's eccentric shaft has too much movement to > produce a good clean signal. Finally, in desperation, I switched back to > the original CAS and the high rpm tuning problem was magically cured. No= t > sure what type CAS you're using, but you may want to put a scope on the l= ead > to see what is going on at high rpm. > > Mark > > On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 10:04 AM, wrote: > >> I've had the same thought- that up at higher rpms I might be having some >> sort of ignition problem. Adjusting the mixture does seem to mitigate i= t >> somewhat, so that leads me to think that it is not an igntion problem. A= lso, >> it only seems to happen in flight, not on the ground, where the loads ar= e a >> little different. So, I still have questions about this, but I'm going t= o >> approach this from the mixture angle. If I am having an igntion problem, >> it's only happening at almost full throttle and in flight, so I'm scratc= hing >> my head trying to see how to test for this. >> >> Brian Trubee >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Steven W. Boese >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 10:28 pm >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning >> >> Brian (and anyone else with more experience than me), >> >> With my engine stand, primary injectors as small as 21 lb and secondary >> injectors from 30 to 50 lb have been used, with MAP up to 30 inches. >> Mixtures from lean misfire to rich misfire have been set with RPM up to >> 5800. Although misfires can be induced with mixture, at no time was the= re >> anything that could be considered a backfire and certainly nothing like = a >> grenade. In flight, I have induced misfires with rich as well as lean >> mixtures again with nothing like the results you describe. My plane=92s >> muffler is a hollow tube about 6 inches in diameter 3 feet long with a >> slightly less than 2=94 diameter outlet and two chambers inside separate= d by a >> conical wall. This muffler would seem to be more of a bomb than a grena= de >> if a backfire were to happen. Doesn=92t the fact that there is a viable >> fuel-air mixture in the exhaust system seem to indicate that the problem= may >> be ignition rather than mixture? This is just a question, not intended = to >> be an answer. >> >> Steve Boese >> RV6A 1986 13B NA RD1A EC2 >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >> *On Behalf Of *bktrub@aol.com >> *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2011 3:35 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Engine Tuning >> >> >> Since the weather has been cooperating lately, I've had the opportunity = to >> put a few more hours on the airplane. On the ground, I can go from an id= le >> up to full throttle and the engine will be smooth. But when I take off, = it >> seems that as soon as I'm up a few hundred feet off the runway, I get >> hellacious backfiring at full throttle. I can mitigate it a bit by >> throttling back to about 5100 rpm, and turning the mixture knob to near = full >> rich. It's getting to be a bit nerve wracking to take off thinking I've = got >> it smoothed out and then get a series of hand grenades going off under m= y >> butt. I'm thinking that I'm still running too lean up at map address 106= or >> so. So, I go into the edit page and richen up the mixture around those >> addresses. I think I'm creeping up on smooth full throttle running. >> >> The good news is that my coolant runs at 175 degrees and oil at less- s= o >> the cooling is more than effective, I just need to close up my air inlet= a >> bit or restrict the outflow. >> >> Brian Trubee >> =3D >> > > --00151747354c3f73eb04a344e19f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian,=A0

My ignition problem was only evident at 5800 r= pm and up. =A0It ran fine below 5800. =A0I could get there on the ground si= nce I have an adjustable prop. =A0Maybe you could borrow a smaller prop so = you could replicate the problem on the ground? =A0

Mark=A0

On Sat, May 1= 4, 2011 at 6:31 PM, <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:
I've got the crank angle sensor mounted on the crank pulley. I don= 't have a scope, but even if I did, the problem only seems to happen at= or near WOT on climbout and in flight. I can run the engine wide open on t= he ground and cannot get the backfiring that I get in the air. There must b= e enough of a difference in engine loading to cause the problem, so I tend = to think it's not ignition, because if it were, I would be getting the = same problem on the ground.
=A0
=A0
=A0
Brian Trubee



-----= Original Message-----
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 11:21 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning

Brian,=A0

A number of us in the rotary group have had ignition issues with the E= C-2. =A0I fought it for over a year, not sure if it was ignition, tuning, o= r a little of both. =A0It was running pretty good, then I had the brilliant= idea to =A0switch the 20B's CAS over to a Renesis style CAS (mounted o= n the crank pulley). =A0Apparently, the 20B's eccentric shaft has too m= uch movement to produce a good clean signal. =A0Finally, in desperation, I = switched back to the original CAS and the high rpm tuning problem was magic= ally cured. =A0Not sure what type CAS you're using, but you may want to= put a scope on the lead to see what is going on at high rpm. =A0

Mark =A0=A0

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 10:04 AM, <bktrub@aol.com<= /a>> wrote:
I've had the same thought- that up at higher rpms I might be havin= g some sort of ignition problem.=A0 Adjusting the mixture does seem to miti= gate it somewhat, so that leads me to think that it is not an igntion probl= em. Also, it only seems to happen in flight, not on the ground, where the l= oads are a little different. So, I still have questions about this, but I&#= 39;m going to approach this from the mixture angle. If I am having an ignti= on problem, it's only happening at almost full throttle and in flight, = so I'm scratching my head trying to see how to test for this.
=A0
Brian Trubee



-----= Original Message-----
From: Steven W. Boese <SBoese@uwyo.edu>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 10:28 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning

Brian (and anyone else= with more experience than me),
=A0
With my engine stand, = primary injectors as small as 21 lb and secondary injectors from 30 to 50 l= b have been used, with MAP up to 30 inches. =A0Mixtures from lean misfire t= o rich misfire have been set with RPM up to 5800.=A0 Although misfires can = be induced with mixture, at no time was there anything that could be consid= ered a backfire and certainly nothing like a grenade.=A0 In flight, I have = induced misfires with rich as well as lean mixtures again with nothing like= the results you describe.=A0 My plane=92s muffler is a hollow tube about 6= inches in diameter 3 feet long with a slightly less than 2=94 diameter out= let and two chambers inside separated by a conical wall.=A0 This muffler wo= uld seem to be more of a bomb than a grenade if a backfire were to happen.= =A0 Doesn=92t the fact that there is a viable fuel-air mixture in the exhau= st system seem to indicate that the problem may be ignition rather than mix= ture?=A0 This is just a question, not intended to be an answer.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
Steve Boese
RV6A 1986 13B NA RD1A = EC2
=A0
=A0
=A0 =A0=A0
=A0
From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancairo= nline.net] On Behalf Of bktrub@aol.com
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 3:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Engine Tuning
=A0

Since the weather has been cooperating lately, I've had the opportunity= to put a few more hours on the airplane. On the ground, I can go from an i= dle up to full throttle and the engine will be smooth. But when I take off,= it seems that as soon as I'm up a few hundred feet off the runway, I g= et hellacious backfiring at full throttle. I can mitigate it a bit by throt= tling back to about 5100 rpm, and turning the mixture knob to near full ric= h. It's getting to be a bit nerve wracking to take off thinking I'v= e got it smoothed out and then get a series of hand grenades going off unde= r my butt. I'm thinking that I'm still running too lean up at map a= ddress 106 or so. So, I go into the edit page and richen up the mixture aro= und those addresses. I think I'm creeping up on smooth full throttle ru= nning.
=A0
The goo= d news is that my coolant runs at 175 degrees and oil at less- so the cooli= ng is more than effective, I just need to close up my air inlet a bit or re= strict the outflow.
=A0
Brian T= rubee
=3D


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