X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com ([209.85.161.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTPS id 4983675 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 14 May 2011 14:22:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so2345749fxm.25 for ; Sat, 14 May 2011 11:21:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=DjYHQ4vHYsocGp277/JWJ1uuUI7Yl7rzeXrmAwQpxwY=; b=BVZRqXctqls9fHLYiShy3BTPU3aAFz+kTXJ9MuAWnCQHEujjMQW+oEEHrHcwOE0zIU OlejTUa0rcOHIH6CRPsBg596tTYqq4s7CPnHkEq5enJdC9nkx492+rZPQZgGoiGeiwBu jiJmSfeuHayb8QSLgLFWLOEnZNSd4Ox4oL7z8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=BSaYAZtLAqcujWj8/Brbm/MO9M8ho9MJfbyHb1DRUzLzzsHN4M92QD1muAHR4uejY9 T7Rb8x96TXzAYhJmjnptjC59/Y6Ax7MxQbsD57xnRifZplCAyJ+sbJ10Gu+vtbo+NXHa EajbidkN/LF6UU4TUiXF1O2ohN8IC7aT/YXVU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.10.150 with SMTP id p22mr2265811fap.86.1305397319569; Sat, 14 May 2011 11:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.96.79 with HTTP; Sat, 14 May 2011 11:21:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 13:21:59 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015173fe4828612de04a3407f81 --0015173fe4828612de04a3407f81 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian, A number of us in the rotary group have had ignition issues with the EC-2. I fought it for over a year, not sure if it was ignition, tuning, or a little of both. It was running pretty good, then I had the brilliant idea to switch the 20B's CAS over to a Renesis style CAS (mounted on the crank pulley). Apparently, the 20B's eccentric shaft has too much movement to produce a good clean signal. Finally, in desperation, I switched back to the original CAS and the high rpm tuning problem was magically cured. Not sure what type CAS you're using, but you may want to put a scope on the lea= d to see what is going on at high rpm. Mark On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 10:04 AM, wrote: > I've had the same thought- that up at higher rpms I might be having some > sort of ignition problem. Adjusting the mixture does seem to mitigate it > somewhat, so that leads me to think that it is not an igntion problem. Al= so, > it only seems to happen in flight, not on the ground, where the loads are= a > little different. So, I still have questions about this, but I'm going to > approach this from the mixture angle. If I am having an igntion problem, > it's only happening at almost full throttle and in flight, so I'm scratch= ing > my head trying to see how to test for this. > > Brian Trubee > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven W. Boese > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 10:28 pm > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning > > Brian (and anyone else with more experience than me), > > With my engine stand, primary injectors as small as 21 lb and secondary > injectors from 30 to 50 lb have been used, with MAP up to 30 inches. > Mixtures from lean misfire to rich misfire have been set with RPM up to > 5800. Although misfires can be induced with mixture, at no time was ther= e > anything that could be considered a backfire and certainly nothing like a > grenade. In flight, I have induced misfires with rich as well as lean > mixtures again with nothing like the results you describe. My plane=92s > muffler is a hollow tube about 6 inches in diameter 3 feet long with a > slightly less than 2=94 diameter outlet and two chambers inside separated= by a > conical wall. This muffler would seem to be more of a bomb than a grenad= e > if a backfire were to happen. Doesn=92t the fact that there is a viable > fuel-air mixture in the exhaust system seem to indicate that the problem = may > be ignition rather than mixture? This is just a question, not intended t= o > be an answer. > > Steve Boese > RV6A 1986 13B NA RD1A EC2 > > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *On Behalf Of *bktrub@aol.com > *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2011 3:35 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Engine Tuning > > > Since the weather has been cooperating lately, I've had the opportunity t= o > put a few more hours on the airplane. On the ground, I can go from an idl= e > up to full throttle and the engine will be smooth. But when I take off, i= t > seems that as soon as I'm up a few hundred feet off the runway, I get > hellacious backfiring at full throttle. I can mitigate it a bit by > throttling back to about 5100 rpm, and turning the mixture knob to near f= ull > rich. It's getting to be a bit nerve wracking to take off thinking I've g= ot > it smoothed out and then get a series of hand grenades going off under my > butt. I'm thinking that I'm still running too lean up at map address 106 = or > so. So, I go into the edit page and richen up the mixture around those > addresses. I think I'm creeping up on smooth full throttle running. > > The good news is that my coolant runs at 175 degrees and oil at less- so > the cooling is more than effective, I just need to close up my air inlet = a > bit or restrict the outflow. > > Brian Trubee > =3D > --0015173fe4828612de04a3407f81 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian,=A0

A number of us in the rotary group have had ig= nition issues with the EC-2. =A0I fought it for over a year, not sure if it= was ignition, tuning, or a little of both. =A0It was running pretty good, = then I had the brilliant idea to =A0switch the 20B's CAS over to a Rene= sis style CAS (mounted on the crank pulley). =A0Apparently, the 20B's e= ccentric shaft has too much movement to produce a good clean signal. =A0Fin= ally, in desperation, I switched back to the original CAS and the high rpm = tuning problem was magically cured. =A0Not sure what type CAS you're us= ing, but you may want to put a scope on the lead to see what is going on at= high rpm. =A0

Mark =A0=A0

On Sat, M= ay 14, 2011 at 10:04 AM, <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:
I've had the same thought- that up at higher rpms I might be havin= g some sort of ignition problem.=A0 Adjusting the mixture does seem to miti= gate it somewhat, so that leads me to think that it is not an igntion probl= em. Also, it only seems to happen in flight, not on the ground, where the l= oads are a little different. So, I still have questions about this, but I&#= 39;m going to approach this from the mixture angle. If I am having an ignti= on problem, it's only happening at almost full throttle and in flight, = so I'm scratching my head trying to see how to test for this.
=A0
Brian Trubee



-----= Original Message-----
From: Steven W. Boese <SBoese@uwyo.edu>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 10:28 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Tuning

Brian (and anyone else= with more experience than me),
=A0
With my engine stand, = primary injectors as small as 21 lb and secondary injectors from 30 to 50 l= b have been used, with MAP up to 30 inches. =A0Mixtures from lean misfire t= o rich misfire have been set with RPM up to 5800.=A0 Although misfires can = be induced with mixture, at no time was there anything that could be consid= ered a backfire and certainly nothing like a grenade.=A0 In flight, I have = induced misfires with rich as well as lean mixtures again with nothing like= the results you describe.=A0 My plane=92s muffler is a hollow tube about 6= inches in diameter 3 feet long with a slightly less than 2=94 diameter out= let and two chambers inside separated by a conical wall.=A0 This muffler wo= uld seem to be more of a bomb than a grenade if a backfire were to happen.= =A0 Doesn=92t the fact that there is a viable fuel-air mixture in the exhau= st system seem to indicate that the problem may be ignition rather than mix= ture?=A0 This is just a question, not intended to be an answer.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
Steve Boese
RV6A 1986 13B NA RD1A = EC2
=A0
=A0
=A0 =A0=A0
=A0
From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancairo= nline.net] On Behalf Of bktrub@aol.com
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 3:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Engine Tuning
=A0

Since the weather has been cooperating lately, I've had the opportunity= to put a few more hours on the airplane. On the ground, I can go from an i= dle up to full throttle and the engine will be smooth. But when I take off,= it seems that as soon as I'm up a few hundred feet off the runway, I g= et hellacious backfiring at full throttle. I can mitigate it a bit by throt= tling back to about 5100 rpm, and turning the mixture knob to near full ric= h. It's getting to be a bit nerve wracking to take off thinking I'v= e got it smoothed out and then get a series of hand grenades going off unde= r my butt. I'm thinking that I'm still running too lean up at map a= ddress 106 or so. So, I go into the edit page and richen up the mixture aro= und those addresses. I think I'm creeping up on smooth full throttle ru= nning.
=A0
The goo= d news is that my coolant runs at 175 degrees and oil at less- so the cooli= ng is more than effective, I just need to close up my air inlet a bit or re= strict the outflow.
=A0
Brian T= rubee
=3D

--0015173fe4828612de04a3407f81--