X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mta31.charter.net ([216.33.127.82] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4969173 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 06 May 2011 15:25:42 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.82; envelope-from=cardmarc@charter.net Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta31.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20110506192508.SZPJ7341.mta31.charter.net@imp09> for ; Fri, 6 May 2011 15:25:08 -0400 Received: from HomeDesktop ([97.94.193.28]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id gKR71g00W0dDVdd05KR7HT; Fri, 06 May 2011 15:25:08 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1b2X7W/SifksZeClH/haT1SUt4udqxFGF00pZw2/jJk= c=1 sm=1 a=LcsonINEX7gA:10 a=yUnIBFQkZM0A:10 a=4sash9Gc6afUAQh1p1CCVg==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=HZJGGiqLAAAA:8 a=uhPMnebkAAAA:8 a=upXHrtAQAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=f1AsmFYOscc-qn0bZBgA:9 a=9bPJcHAR1t7VVdaJS9kA:7 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=f0s5FU26TKIA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=hUswqBWy9Q8A:10 a=HeoGohOdMD0A:10 a=Hs9J3SXIuHcA:10 a=MgbB6GdfIKBaQv_9:21 a=W2OUhzXAwfo14mmv:21 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=fG23qFw6PVbtjHCykVgA:9 a=igxUb_I56NHKzz8sGOEA:7 a=OVVsKy2o_8Sye0pr:21 a=27tXghw6yOXEzB3g:21 a=4sash9Gc6afUAQh1p1CCVg==:117 From: "Marc Wiese" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 14:25:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000001cc0c23$50167720$f0436560$@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CC0BF9.67479B10" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHdmx1Zm8WhKxarAiPz8wTskHGtU5RdD3+g Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CC0BF9.67479B10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly, My Bad. Been working on a friends twin commanche too much. The motor = mount is from a Cardinal RG nose retract and uses the Lyc IO360 A1B6 200 = hp angle valve cylinders. So it=E2=80=99s a type 1. Maybe we can use it to test fit up that new back/front plate!! BTW, those mm shock donuts are costly for most of these systems. We got = to find cheaper compliant donuts. Marc =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 1:24 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) =20 Marc, The Mistral backplate is for a Dynafocal Type 1 , 30 degree mount = ring=20 which is standard for most Lycoming 0-320 & all 0 & I0-360 engines (that = I=20 am aware of))..............The Dynafocal Type 2 , 18 degree mount ring = was designed for a specific 0-320 engine installed in the Twin Comanche with an extra 2.5 inch extended prop hub..............This put the engine CG = ahead=20 the 30 degree mount focal point of approx 14.25 inches so the 18 degree mount was designed to again put the engine CG slightly behind the 18 = degree focal point.............If your Cardinal has the type 2 , 18 degree = mount then it=20 probably has a 0-320 with the extra pop hub length..........If not maybe = Cessna got a good deal on this particular 0-320 engine model back = then.........If by chance your Cardinal has an 0-360 then all bets are off as I haven't = heard of a 0-360 model with the Type 2 , 18 degree mount............<:) =20 As for the 93-95 13BREW front side plate Bryan may have found us an unserviceable one............We will see............As many of these = engnes that have been over-heated , over-boosted and over-reved we should be able to = come up with a junk one............. =20 Thanks Marc, =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 _____ =20 From: Marc Wiese To: keltro@att.net Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 8:40:02 PM Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) Kelly, I also have a type II dynafocal engine mount (from a Cardinal = RG!)=E2=80=A6. Marc=20 =20 From: Marc Wiese [mailto:cardmarc@charter.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 8:37 PM To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft'; 'keltro@att.net' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) =20 I may have one of those 13Brew =E2=80=9Cfront plates=E2=80=9D, but it is = =E2=80=9Cuseable=E2=80=9D. I too would like a dynafocal type II mount=E2=80=A6..for both of my = 13Brews and the 20B=E2=80=A6 Marc =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 6:09 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) =20 To The Rotary Group, Yes I know I am a troublemaker (too much computer time available = with my day job) and some of you are probably sick of all my posts = !!.............."But" with that being said one of our group is seriously = considering the development of a "Mistral" type back-plate to allow the use of a standard "Lycoming" "Dynafocal type 1" = engine mount ring that will be a virtual "Bolt-on" to the 93-95 13BREW , Cosmo 13B & 20B and the Renesis 13B = Rotarys.............Several builders and potentials have indicated they would be interested in such a back-plate (including me)............I = have one of the few "Mistral" back-plates that ended up in the hands of experimenters (waited 2 years for it)..........It is severely = over engineered for our use (and overpriced) and has many features we do not need........... =20 If you have followed "Back-plate" string of posts recently you know = that Jarrett Johnson one our group with aspirations to install a Cosmo 20B in his project started the discussion first about an = developing an intake manifold for 13B & 20B Rotarys (which needs to be done also) then I jumped in and said that a common = engine mount design might also be needed and if you have been reading the posts lately a lot of info has been kicked = around about the various Rotarys and what it will take to "Marry" the = "Mistral" back-plate with a "RX8 "Renesis" water-pump (with the magic of = digital scanning & CAD) to design=20 such a back-plate......... =20 Those that have been on the Rotary forum for several years may = remember Jarrett posting his trials and tribulations in building a huge CAM mill (at home).............He is a commercial = designer with the talent and equipment (including foundry) to pull this off............I have offered my "Mistral" back-plate to be = scanned (He trying to find someone here in Okla to do the job) and I also have a "Renesis" front cover to = scan............What we really need now is a 93-95 13BREW front side housing (unusable condition preferred as long as front side is = undamaged) to put in his hands as this is what the back-plate will bolt to..............If someone in the group has an unusable 93-95 = 13BREW front side housing they will donate I will pay to have it shipped to Jarrett..............You may contact me off the = forum if you would prefer..........I have no horse in this race I would just like to see such a product be made available to the = group.......... =20 keltro@att.net =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 _____ =20 From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 11:45:09 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate Jarrett, =20 Will be a good idea to scan both the Mistral and Renesis = housings.............You really need=20 a 93-95 13BREW (preferably) or Cosmo 20B front housing to = scan.............Most of my 13B engines are 86-91.............My Cosmo 13B is adaptable but lacks some = of the machined bolt and stud pads of the 13BREW, Renesis or Cosmo 20B front side housing = which you need to make allowances for on the redesigned back-plate if you want it to = fit all three versions of these engines..................Throw this out to the group and see if = someone has a 1993-95 13BREW front side hsg (need not be usable) they would donate or lend to = the project......... =20 You really need this front side housing in front of you......... Even = with all the scans nothing=20 beats having the actual hardware............IMHO =20 Best Regards, =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 _____ =20 From: H & J Johnson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 10:43:03 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate Evening Kelly, so just thought I'd send a note w/ an update. I did find = a fella in Tulsa who has access to a laser scanner. He's getting me some = pricing on what it would cost to get the job done. I'm thinking it might be a = good idea to get both the Mistral housing as well as a Renisis Front = Cover scanned?=20 I'd like to get an Iron [preferably the side that mates to the front = cover] scanned as well but don't know if you've got one handy [as in, = not 'in' an engine]. I could always=20 do it here in time but that might take a bit before I get my hands on = one that is not in an engine. =20 I'll keep you posted as this goes and see where we get. Jarrett Johnson=20 www.innovention-tech.com =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CC0BF9.67479B10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kelly,

My Bad. Been = working on a friends twin commanche too much. The motor mount is from a = Cardinal RG nose retract and uses the Lyc IO360 A1B6 200 hp angle valve = cylinders. So it=E2=80=99s a type 1.

Maybe we can = use it to test fit up that new back/front = plate!!

BTW, those mm = shock donuts are costly for most of these systems. We got to find = cheaper compliant donuts.

Marc

 

From:= = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 1:24 = AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd = Needed)

 

Marc,

  &= nbsp;    The Mistral backplate is for a Dynafocal = Type 1 , 30 degree mount ring =

which is = standard for most Lycoming 0-320 & all 0 & I0-360 = engines (that I

am aware = of))..............The Dynafocal Type 2 , 18 degree mount ring = was

designed for = a specific 0-320 engine installed in the Twin Comanche = with

an extra 2.5 = inch extended prop hub..............This put the engine CG ahead =

the 30 = degree mount focal point  of approx 14.25 inches so the 18 = degree

mount was = designed to again put the engine CG slightly behind the 18 = degree

focal = point.............If your Cardinal has the type 2 , 18 degree  = mount then it

probably has = a 0-320 with the extra pop hub length..........If not maybe = Cessna

got a good = deal on this particular 0-320 engine model back then.........If = by

chance your = Cardinal has an 0-360 then all bets are off as I haven't = heard

of a 0-360 = model with the Type 2 , 18 degree = mount............<:)

 

  &= nbsp;  As for the 93-95 13BREW front side plate Bryan may have = found us an

unserviceable= one............We will see............As many of these engnes = that

have = been over-heated , over-boosted and over-reved we should be able to =

come up with = a junk one.............

 

Thanks = Marc,

 

 Kelly = Troyer
"DYKE = DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)

"13B = ROTARY"_ = Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold

"TURBONE= TICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

 

 

From:= = Marc Wiese <cardmarc@charter.net>
To: = keltro@att.net
Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 8:40:02 = PM
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side = Hsd Needed)

Kelly,

I also have a = type II dynafocal engine mount (from a Cardinal = RG!)=E2=80=A6.

Marc =

 

From:<= /b> = Marc Wiese [mailto:cardmarc@charter.net]
Sent: Thursday, May = 05, 2011 8:37 PM
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft'; = 'keltro@att.net'
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate = (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed)

 

I may have one = of those 13Brew =E2=80=9Cfront plates=E2=80=9D, but it is = =E2=80=9Cuseable=E2=80=9D.

I too would = like a dynafocal type II mount=E2=80=A6..for both of my 13Brews and the = 20B=E2=80=A6

Marc=

 

From:<= /b> = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 6:09 = PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd = Needed)

 

To The = Rotary Group,

  &= nbsp;  Yes I know I am a troublemaker (too much computer time = available with my day job) and some of you are probably sick of all = my posts !!.............."But" with that being said one = of our group is seriously considering the development of a = "Mistral" type

back-plate = to allow the use of a standard "Lycoming" "Dynafocal type = 1" engine mount ring that will be a virtual "Bolt-on" to = the

93-95 = 13BREW , Cosmo 13B & 20B and the Renesis 13B = Rotarys.............Several builders and potentials have indicated = they

would be = interested in such a back-plate (including me)............I have one of = the few "Mistral" back-plates that ended up in = the

hands of = experimenters (waited 2 years for it)..........It is severely over = engineered for our use (and overpriced) and has = many

features we = do not need...........

 =

  &= nbsp; If you have followed "Back-plate" string of posts = recently you know that Jarrett Johnson one our group with aspirations = to

install a = Cosmo 20B in his project started the discussion first about an = developing an intake manifold for 13B & 20B = Rotarys

(which needs = to be done also) then I jumped in and said that a = common engine mount design might also be needed and = if

you have = been reading the posts lately a lot of info has been kicked = around about the various Rotarys and what it will = take to "Marry" the "Mistral" back-plate with a = "RX8 "Renesis" water-pump (with the magic of digital = scanning & CAD) to design

such a = back-plate.........

 =

  &= nbsp;  Those that have been on the Rotary forum for several years = may remember Jarrett posting his trials and tribulations = in

building a = huge CAM mill (at home).............He is a commercial designer with the = talent and equipment (including = foundry)

to pull this = off............I have offered my "Mistral" back-plate to be = scanned (He trying to find someone here in Okla to = do

the  = job) and I also have a "Renesis" front cover to = scan............What we really need now is a 93-95 13BREW front = side

housing = (unusable condition preferred as long as front side is undamaged) to put = in his hands as this is what the = back-plate

will bolt = to..............If someone in the group has an unusable 93-95 13BREW = front side housing they will donate I will = pay

to have it = shipped to Jarrett..............You may contact me off the forum if you = would prefer..........I have no horse in this = race

I would just = like to see such a product be made available to the = group..........

 =

  &= nbsp; 

Kelly = Troyer
"DYKE = DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)

"13B = ROTARY"_ = Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold

"TURBONE= TICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

 =

 =

From:<= /b> = Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, May 3, = 2011 11:45:09 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Back-plate

Jarrett,

 =

  &= nbsp; Will be a good idea to scan both the Mistral and Renesis = housings.............You really need

a 93-95 = 13BREW (preferably) or Cosmo 20B front housing to = scan.............Most of my 13B

engines are = 86-91.............My Cosmo 13B is adaptable = but lacks some of the machined = bolt

and stud = pads of the 13BREW, Renesis or Cosmo 20B front side housing which = you need

to make = allowances for on the redesigned back-plate if you want it to fit all = three versions of

these = engines..................Throw this out to the group and see if someone = has a 1993-95

13BREW front = side hsg (need not be usable) they would donate or lend to the = project.........

 =

   = You really need this front side housing in front of you......... Even = with all the scans nothing

beats having = the actual hardware............IMHO

 =

Best = Regards,

 =

Kelly = Troyer
"DYKE = DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)

"13B = ROTARY"_ = Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold

"TURBONE= TICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

 =

 =

From:<= /b> H = & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
To: Rotary = motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Tue, May 3, 2011 10:43:03 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Back-plate

Evening Kelly, so just thought I'd = send a note w/ an update. I did find a fella in Tulsa who has access to = a laser scanner. He's getting me some pricing

on what = it would cost to get the job done. I'm thinking it might be a good idea = to get both the Mistral housing as well as a Renisis Front Cover = scanned?

I'd like to get an Iron [preferably = the side that mates to the front cover] scanned as well but don't = know if you've got one handy [as in, not 'in' an engine]. I could always =

do it here in time but that might take a bit before I = get my hands on one that is not in an = engine.

 

I'll keep you posted as this goes and see = where we get.

Jarrett Johnson
www.innovention-tech.com = 

--    Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/ &nb=
sp;  Archive and UnSub:   http:=
//mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CC0BF9.67479B10--