X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com ([209.85.161.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTPS id 4966773 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 May 2011 14:14:16 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so1001005fxm.25 for ; Wed, 04 May 2011 11:13:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=N7dBiuT1eloSm4CbmDEZ9pQ4D5PUiJf3Tv0hxBpCAbk=; b=Z3aGyitqme6+mbtGPX3PYDflRr0VxxiCiz5DlFbvol0XPu6Vq2ejPjs9SrIU6R4/10 cUKHKMxrVLAFIp0jQAJkoOPDbsKEz2ndFiaIg8/4qudnDu06tu/O0exOLZTXq3GPtHJf TTadw4PsR033Dzokulv4ApfDbQFu3N1YTp4DA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=i6/pzVS6tukkDiVZ0FbIUqXCM99xPI4ly7iuB/gf4hJQrT074lDEfPV/NbxTd8iPNi qSl1zte0Rn9s6KeOEKtTcmnMxEfCLSEMKlb6DtBy7o3qqXeQDNPgbGNR+0t3pnr2FxVx t95Zh/UijAvefEnEcxuYdZMyiD3S2nZissZ4A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.101.87 with SMTP id b23mr451823fao.97.1304532820831; Wed, 04 May 2011 11:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.69.139 with HTTP; Wed, 4 May 2011 11:13:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 13:13:40 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: water pump housing From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151744800e622e3b04a277373a --00151744800e622e3b04a277373a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Kelly, I wasn't going to go there, but since you mentioned it, here goes. I wanted to go with the Renesis CAS, so needed a CAS timing wheel. I bought this new, and in order to get a CAS timing wheel, I had to buy the entire hub/pulley/wheel assy. I figured why not go with the Renesis WP also, which is what I did. The Renesis pulley is different and would have messed up the eccentric end-play setting if not modified. So, lots of careful measuring later, I visited my machinist friend and made the necessary mods to the Renesis hub. Also, made a thin precision spacer. When all was done, the hub was installed on the 20b, but without the Renesis front cover. I could not see any benefit to using the lower portion of the Renesis front cover, so I cut off the WP and threw the rest away. I messed around for 2 years trying to get the Renesis CAS to work with the EC-2 and finally gave up and reinstalled the original 20B CAS, which is what I'm currently using. (It is working well now.) However, I never removed the Renesis hub, so I don't know what would be necessary to get the pulleys to line up with the stock 20B hub. Someone else will have to go down that road. For now mine is running good, cooling well, and I'm not going to touch anything for a long time. Mark On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Mark, > > Thanks for the "Real World Info"................I was fairly confident > the Renesis front cover could be > bolted to the 13BREW and Cosmo 13B/20B but I was not aware of the > counterweight interference > on the 20B not having seen inside one...............This is the kind of > information this group is famous > for.............The sharing of knowledge to help each other over the > hurdles of adapting the Rotarys > for aircraft use.............One reason I suggested the use of the complete > Renesis front cover was to > allow the use of the stock eccentric hub/trigger wheel/pulleys without the > need for any spacers to > align the pump,alternator and eccentric pulleys.................The Renesis > front cover is approx 1 inch > shorter from gasket surface to front of the eccentric shaft oil seal than > the 13B/20B covers.......... > > Mark did your Renesis pump installation require any pulley adjustments > for belt alignment and did > you use a Renesis eccentric shaft pulley ??............... > > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Wed, May 4, 2011 11:42:40 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: water pump housing > > Kelly/Tom, > > You are correct that the Renesis front cover can be made to fit on a > 13B/20B, but the pan bolts are a different pattern which will require > modification to your oil pan. Also, the 20B front counterweight is larger > than the Renesis causing the cover to interfere with the 20B's > front counterweight. Material will need to be milled out for the cover to > fit, but in doing that, you will end up cutting through the cover which will > require tig welding the holes. Finally, the RX-8 front cover is heavier > than the 13B/20B front cover with Renesis water pump. Personally, I don't > see an advantage to using the Renesis front cover. > Mark S. > (Been there, done that.) > > On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > >> Tom, >> >> One additional thing comes to my mind...........I do not have a RX8 >> Renesis front side >> housing (cast iron) but from all of my research of photos I am fairly >> confident that the >> RX8 front housing (aluminum) will bolt directly to the 93-95 13BREW and >> Cosmo 13B >> and 20B with some minor mods (to possibly clear bolt heads on the 20B >> front side hsg) >> and the drilling and threading of 1 to 3 existing bosses for 8 mm x 1.25 >> studs or bolts.. >> >> >> >> Kelly Troyer >> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >> >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Kelly Troyer >> >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Wed, May 4, 2011 10:32:44 AM >> >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: water pump housing >> >> Tom, >> Source for pump with improved impeller...........They also >> have used pump and eccentric shaft pulleys...... >> "Mazmart" is located in Atlanta, GA............ >> http://www.mazmart.com/PartsList.aspx?id=27&n=NEW&m=6 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Kelly Troyer >> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >> >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Tom Giddings >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Wed, May 4, 2011 10:17:50 AM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: water pump housing >> >> Thanks Again!! >> >> Kind Regards >> Tom Giddings >> VP Avionics Sales >> Midwest Avionics >> 200 Hardy Roberts Drive >> Paducah, KY 42086-0219 >> 877-904-9966 >> tom@midwestavionics.net >> Online Store >> www.midwest-avionics.com >> >> >> On May 4, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >> >> Tom, >> Try these two RX8 recyclers............ >> >> ss427bb@hotmail.com >> Brian Galloway in Calif..........Used by Greg Ward (Turbo/20B) >> >> mrmazda@sbcglobal.net >> Curtis James in Texas............Used by CozyGirrls, Mark (I believe) & >> myself >> >> >> >> Kelly Troyer >> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >> >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Thomas Giddings >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Wed, May 4, 2011 9:02:53 AM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: water pump housing >> >> Mark: Thanks again....I must be getting old.. I remember now that you did >> tell me that in one of our phone conversations...just now sinking in...as >> matter of fact i just found the photo's you sent of your pump housing and >> engine set -up. Kelly...you are a very helpful resource as well..I will try >> to find this after market pump. The question is does anyone have a RX8 >> water pump housing they would sell? >> >> Tom Giddings >> VP Avionics Sales >> MIDWEST AVIONICS >> 200 Hardy Roberts Dr >> PO Box 219 >> West Paducah,KY 42086 >> 877-904 9966 >> Cell; 727 858-1772 >> FAX:270 744 3466 >> tom@midwestaviation.net >> Online Store >> www.midwest-avionics.com >> >> >> >> On May 4, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: >> >> Tom, >> >> I'm running a modified Renesis water pump housing. As you know, the 20B >> WP housing is very tall with the thermostat section protruding up above the >> engine. The Renesis WP housing uses a side intake/discharge but is >> integrated with the front cover. The WP section must be cut away from the >> remainder of the Renesis front cover to be used on a non-Renesis >> application. >> >> The Renesis WP cartridge is much lighter than the cast iron 20B cartridge, >> but the impellor is very cheaply made. In the stock configuration, it may >> not pump enough coolant to cool a 3-rotor. I went with an aftermarket WP >> cartridge which has a SS impellor similar to that of the 20B. I'll have to >> look for the info on that. Pump was a bit pricey at $265. >> >> You may also need a custom WP pulley to run a Renesis pump on a >> non-renesis engine. >> >> Mark >> >> >> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Thomas Giddings > > wrote: >> >>> Can anyone tell me which water pump housing will lower the overall height >>> of the housing on the stock 20B. I need to keep it the height of block if >>> possible. I have seen some photos of one that would work.Itwas on a two rotor engine. >>> >>> >>> Tom Giddings >>> VP Avionics Sales >>> MIDWEST AVIONICS >>> 200 Hardy Roberts Dr >>> PO Box 219 >>> West Paducah,KY 42086 >>> 877-904 9966 >>> Cell; 727 858-1772 >>> FAX:270 744 3466 >>> tom@midwestaviation.net >>> Online Store >>> www.midwest-avionics.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> >> <20B_WP_Picture 002 small.JPG>-- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> >> > --00151744800e622e3b04a277373a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kelly,
=A0
I wasn't going to go there, but since you mentioned it, here goes.= =A0 I wanted to go with the Renesis CAS, so needed a CAS timing wheel.=A0 I= bought this new, and in order to get=A0a=A0CAS timing=A0wheel, I had to bu= y the entire hub/pulley/wheel assy.=A0 I figured why not go with the Renesi= s WP also, which is what I did.=A0 The Renesis pulley is different and woul= d have=A0messed up=A0the eccentric end-play setting if not modified.=A0 So,= lots of careful measuring later, I visited my machinist friend and made th= e necessary mods to the Renesis hub.=A0 Also, made a thin precision=A0space= r.=A0 When all was done, the hub was installed on the 20b, but without the = Renesis front cover.=A0 I could not see any benefit to using the lower port= ion of the Renesis front cover, so I cut off the WP and threw the rest away= .=A0=A0
=A0
I messed around for 2 years=A0trying to get the=A0Renesis CAS to work = with the EC-2 and finally gave up and reinstalled the original 20B CAS, whi= ch is what I'm currently using.=A0 (It is working well now.)=A0 However= , I never removed the Renesis hub, so I don't know what=A0would be=A0ne= cessary to get the pulleys to line up with the stock 20B hub.=A0 Someone el= se will have to go down that road.=A0 For now mine is running good,=A0cooli= ng well, and I'm not going to touch anything for a long time.=A0=A0
=A0
Mark=A0

On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>= wrote:
Mark,
=A0
=A0=A0 Thanks for the=A0"Real World Info"................I w= as fairly confident the Renesis front cover could be
bolted to the 13BREW and Cosmo 13B/20B but I was not aware of the coun= terweight interference
on the 20B not having seen=A0inside one...............This is the kind= of information this group is famous
for.............The sharing of knowledge to help each other over the h= urdles of adapting the Rotarys
for aircraft use.............One reason I suggested the use of the com= plete Renesis front cover was to
allow the use of the stock eccentric hub/trigger wheel/pulleys without= the need for any spacers to
align the pump,alternator and=A0eccentric pulleys.................The = Renesis front cover is approx 1 inch
shorter from gasket surface to front of the eccentric shaft oil seal t= han the 13B/20B covers..........
=A0
=A0 Mark did your Renesis pump installation require any=A0pulley adjus= tments for belt alignment and did
you use a Renesis eccentric shaft pulley ??...............
=A0

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"= MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo


<= br>
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com&= gt;
To: Rotary motors in= aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 11:4= 2:40 AM
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re: water pump housing

Kelly/Tom,
=A0
You are correct that the Renesis front cover can be made to fit on a 1= 3B/20B, but the pan bolts are a different pattern which will require modifi= cation to your oil pan.=A0 Also, the 20B front counterweight is larger than= the Renesis causing the=A0cover=A0to interfere with the=A020B's front= =A0counterweight.=A0 Material will=A0need to be milled=A0out for the cover = to fit, but in doing that, you will end up cutting through the cover which = will require=A0tig welding the holes.=A0 Finally, the RX-8 front cover is h= eavier than the 13B/20B front cover with Renesis water pump.=A0 Personally,= I don't see an advantage to using the Renesis front cover.=A0=A0=A0
Mark S.
(Been there, done that.)
=A0
On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Tom,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0 One additional thing comes to my mind...........I do not hav= e a RX8 Renesis front side
housing (cast iron) but from all of my research of photos I am fairly = confident that the
RX8 front housing (aluminum) will bolt directly to=A0the 93-95=A013BRE= W and Cosmo 13B
and 20B with some minor=A0mods (to possibly clear bolt heads on the 20= B front side hsg)
and the drilling and threading of=A01 to=A03 existing bosses for 8 mm = x 1.25 studs or bolts..
=A0
=A0

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"= MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo


<= br>
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att= .net>=20

To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 10:32:44 AM= =20

Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Re: water pump housing

Tom,
=A0=A0 Source for pump with=A0improved impeller...........They also ha= ve=A0used=A0pump and eccentric shaft pulleys......
"Mazmart" is located in Atlanta, GA............=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"= MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo


<= br>
From: Tom Giddings <t= om@midwestaviation.net>
To:<= /span> Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 10:1= 7:50 AM
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re: water pump housing

Thanks Again!!

Kind Regards=20
Tom Giddings
VP Avionics Sales
Midwest Avionics
200 Hardy Roberts Drive
Paducah, KY 42086-0219
Online Store=A0


On May 4, 2011, at 11:08 AM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wro= te:

Tom,
=A0=A0=A0 Try these two RX8 recyclers............
=A0
ss427bb@hotmail.com=A0 Brian Galloway in Calif..........Used= by Greg Ward (Turbo/20B)
=A0
<= font color=3D"#0081c2">mrmazda@sbcglobal.net=A0 Curtis James in = Texas............Used by CozyGirrls, Mark (I believe) & myself
=A0
=A0

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"= MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo


<= br>
From: Thomas Giddings <<= a href=3D"mailto:tom@midwestaviation.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow= ">tom@midwestaviation.net>
T= o: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.= net>
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 9:02= :53 AM
Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Re: water pump housing

Mark: Thanks again....I must be ge= tting old.. I remember now that you did tell me that in one of our phone co= nversations...just now sinking in...as matter of fact i just found the phot= o's you sent of your pump housing and engine set -up. Kelly...you are a= very helpful resource as well..I will try to find this =A0after market pum= p. The question is does anyone have a RX8 water pump housing they would sel= l?=A0=20

Tom=A0Giddings
VP Avionics Sales
MIDWEST AVIONICS
200 Hardy Roberts = Dr
PO Box 219
West Paducah,KY 42086
877-904 99= 66
Cell; 727 858-1772
FAX:270 744 3466
tom@midwestaviation.net

<M= idwest>

On May 4, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Mark Steitle wrote:

Tom,
=A0
I'm running a modified Renesis water pump housing.=A0 As you know,= the 20B WP housing is very tall with the thermostat section protruding up = above the engine.=A0 The Renesis WP housing uses a side=A0intake/discharge = but=A0is integrated with the front cover.=A0=A0The WP section=A0must be cut= away from the remainder of the Renesis front cover to be used on a non-Ren= esis application.=A0
=A0
The Renesis WP cartridge is much lighter than the cast iron 20B cartri= dge, but the impellor is very cheaply made.=A0 In the stock configuration, = it may not pump enough coolant to cool a 3-rotor.=A0 I went with an afterma= rket WP cartridge which has a SS impellor similar to that of the 20B.=A0 I&= #39;ll have to look for the info on that.=A0 Pump was a bit pricey=A0at $26= 5.
=A0
You may also need a custom WP pulley to run a Renesis pump on a non-re= nesis engine.
=A0
Mark

=A0
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Thomas Giddings= <tom@midwestaviation.net> wro= te:
Can anyone tell me which water p= ump housing will lower the overall height of the housing on the stock 20B. = I need to keep =A0it the height of block if possible. I have seen some phot= os of one that would work.It was on a two rotor engine.


Tom Giddings
VP Avionics Sales
MIDWEST AVIONICS
200 Hardy = Roberts Dr
PO Box 219
West Paducah,KY 42086
87= 7-904 9966
Cell; 727 858-1772
FAX:270 744 3466
tom@midwestaviation.net
Online Store
www.midw= est-avionics.com





--
Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0= http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


<20B_WP_Picture 002 small.JPG>--
Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/
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<= /div>

--00151744800e622e3b04a277373a--