X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2) with ESMTP id 4913403 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:37:51 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=r4yJ8ACLDmU9N8MfnU6qGSvboKzSN9UnPAeXToqJDNE= c=1 sm=0 a=3t6DDDcNRyoA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=elAQ9dKD-3xJB-NmM8sA:9 a=x_Cz_uH6FpK75gC9U7oA:7 a=5Ubl-PLuCncwZe9kI5s6CgxmdNAA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=cY4d-LWM75yR9uUM:21 a=de2vAu1ZAQ6Dw9aB:21 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=0uaNVGSl5ZE7XFYTSMQA:9 a=p3uHTqfu08ONNGRiQzgA:7 a=MH8UCfwZx8AsF2FXilIWbcP79pcA:4 a=7god_763jbgA:10 a=FZ6y0d_2kMJQAu9Y:21 a=Y2y7hCcUalobjFLl:21 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:59456] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 29/71-09483-A68378D4; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:37:15 +0000 Message-ID: <33434F85E3D74DC6A4247F6A50272902@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:37:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01CBE79A.CB65FE30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CBE79A.CB65FE30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good question, Bobby. You are producing less power/heat due to the = absence/limiting of air flow through the engine - so I would think that = your EGT would decrease. On the other hand, what little combustion is = occurring has no place to go so could build up heat. My bet would be = EGT would decrease. Perhaps Steve with his exhaust test stand could = provide information on that point. Ed From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 9:52 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 Ed, =20 The Advanced EFIS provides voice alerts for most engine parameters. I = received no other alert but AOA. However they did not include egt's = with the water cooled package. It's was designed for the Egg subi's and = they would not modify for any other options. So if it was a blockage = would the egt's have gone cold? Would a partial blockage raise the = egt's? =20 Bobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:21 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 Altitude has been the saver in both of my engine out events - I always = go cross country at 8000MSL + {:>) =20 Keeping your head cool and paying attention to what your instruments are = telling you (nice AOA system) is clearly crucial. =20 Ed =20 From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 9:19 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 Thanks Ed. It happened at the perfect airport with three long runways. I = had executed a Vx climbing turn at 38" MP. I had a lot of altitude and = was very aware of the runway off my right wing tip. Had this happened 5 = minutes later it would be a completely different story. Bobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:01 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 Great work, Bobby!! =20 Ain't it amazing how long 10 seconds can seem when your heart is = pounding and your mind racing - been there! =20 As many an old instructor has emphasized - first priority is FLY THE = AIRCRAFT which you clearly did an excellent job of. =20 I fly with two HushpowerII mufflers (several hundred hours on them), but = I have two headers each with their own muffler. I fly with a turbo = block which means no exhaust splitters to soften the exhaust pulse - and = it can rapidly pound stainless steel (or anything else) into pieces. = While I have never had exhaust blockage, I have had internal pieces = depart the muffler. I suspect after several hundred hours my Hushpower = II mufflers no longer have much of anything internal but the metal mesh = cone remaining. =20 While a turbocharger would probably soften the exhaust pulse quite a bit = - a supercharger as you fly with, of course, will not. =20 Well, it clear that there was little you could do in the air about the = muffler blockage - had I been a bit more astute, I could have probable = recovered engine power on my two unintentional engine outs. Hindsight = is just so wonderful {:>) =20 Good flying, good decisions and it ended well - well, except perhaps for = your seat cushion. =20 Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com =20 From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Forced Landing.=20 =20 Since it's been so quiet lately.=20 =20 I had a complete loss of engine power yesterday during climb out from = Tyler TX (KTYR). I had executed a Vx climb to see you hot I could get = the oil with the supplemental oil cool I recently added. The engine was = running but stopped making any power. I switch fuel tanks, adjusted the = mixture both directions, toggled the primary injector switch for cold = start and check my breakers. I did everything but switch to the B = controller. All the troubleshooting took place in about 10 seconds or = less. At that time my AOA starting telling me "angle, angle, push, push" = . Glad I had the AOA as I'm not sure my attention was focused on the = right priorities. I told the tower I had an engine failure and was = landing. 35. Very happy this happened at an airport with three long = runways with different headings. I pointed the nose down and made a = right turn to the runway. The landing was downwind with 15 knot wind. I = was too fast and used all 3500ft I had left. I coasted onto a taxiway = with the engine idling very rough. I couldn't make enough power to taxi. = The FBO was there within two minutes and towed me back to their hanger. = At this point I figured I had lost an apex seals. I pulled the prop = through but had good compression. I pulled the cowl and everything was = in place. Up until now I had remained very calm but that changed when I = realized there was no smoking gun. I checked my injector power = connections at the switches but everything seem good. The EC2 coil test = worked but the injector test did not. I attempted an engine start and it = ran normally. "What the h***" I later realized I had not activated the = cold start switch for the injector test. Injectors tested fine. I was at = a complete loss as what to look at next. I thought about a CAS = intermediate failure but nothing I could come up with fit the problem. = After another five minute full power run to 38"MP on both controllers I = rolled the plane back into the FBO's hanger and took a break. So here I = am 200 miles from home after a forced landing and the plane is making = full power as usual. Now the nerves set in full force. It downed on me = to check the muffler for blockage. From what I could see with a = flashlight the cone in my HushpowerII was out of place. I dropped the = muffler from the belly and about a =BD" cup of material came out. It was = small pieces of mess from the cone. About 1/3 of the entrance side cone = was still intact but the rest was gone. The internal steel support that = forms the cone was still intact but movable with a large screw driver. I = knocked as much out as I could and reinstalled the muffler. I was unable = to knock out any of the mesh that was still in place. I decided to = conduct a flight test over the airport for ten minutes. If all was good = then I would head for home and climb to 8500 for the trip back. The = headwind at 8500 would add 20 minutes to the flight unless I ran the = engine above 30" MP. I didn't think it was a good time to stress the = muffler any more than necessary. I took off and climbed to 3000 ft on = the B controller and circled for several laps. I switched controllers, = fuel, injector cold start, coils and everything was normal. So I = nervously departed for the 200 mile trip. I picked up flight following = and had the autopilot/ flight director take me home. I spent the entire = flight with the nearest airport active on my Advanced EFIS moving map. = It draws a line, gives a distance and runway lengths. I also check = airport information on my ipad and Foreflight. The flight was uneventful = but was the most stressful I have ever experienced.=20 =20 I'm guessing the muffler internals came loose and slid rearward trapping = all the small come material that was dislodged. I was somewhere between = Vx and Vy at a very high angle of attack when the problem occurred. The = muffler is parallel l with the bottom of the fuselage so I believe any = small dislodged material would remain inside the muffler. The plan now = is to go through the entire electrical system and check every connection = associated with the EC2 and fuel delivery. I will also be looking for a = different muffle and putting the plane back into flight testing until I = can regain my confidence with the install. I am also very thankful none = of my family was onboard. My teenage daughter had decided she didn't = want to spend the remainder of spring break with me visiting my sister.=20 =20 Bobby Hughes (shaken not stirred)---- check your mufflers!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CBE79A.CB65FE30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good question, Bobby.  You are producing = less=20 power/heat due to the absence/limiting  of air flow through = the engine=20 - so I would think that your EGT would decrease.  On the other = hand, what=20 little combustion is occurring has no place to go so could build up = heat. =20 My bet would be EGT would decrease.  Perhaps Steve with his exhaust = test=20 stand could provide information on that point.
 
Ed

From: Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 9:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.

 

Ed,

 

The Advanced = EFIS=20 provides voice alerts for most engine parameters. I received no other = alert but=20 AOA.  However they=20 did not include egt=92s with the water cooled package. It=92s was = designed for the=20 Egg subi=92s and they would not modify for any other options. So if it = was a=20 blockage would the egt=92s have gone cold? Would a partial blockage = raise the=20 egt=92s?

 

Bobby

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:21 = PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced = Landing.=20

 

Altitude has been the = saver in both=20 of my engine out events - I always go cross country at 8000MSL +=20 {:>)

 

Keeping your head cool and = paying=20 attention to what your instruments are telling you (nice AOA system) is = clearly=20 crucial.

 

Ed

 

From: Bobby J. Hughes=20

Sent: Sunday,=20 March 20, 2011 9:19 PM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. =

 

Thanks Ed. It = happened=20 at the perfect airport with three long runways. I had executed a Vx = climbing=20 turn at 38=94 MP. I had a lot of altitude and was very aware of the = runway off my=20 right wing tip. Had this happened 5 minutes later it would be a = completely=20 different story.  Bobby

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:01 = PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced = Landing.=20

 

Great work,=20 Bobby!!

 

Ain't it amazing how long = 10 seconds=20 can seem when your heart is pounding and your mind racing - been=20 there!

 

As many an old instructor = has=20 emphasized - first priority is FLY THE AIRCRAFT which you clearly did an = excellent job of.

 

I fly with two HushpowerII = mufflers=20 (several hundred hours on them), but I have two headers each with their = own=20 muffler.  I fly with a turbo block which means no exhaust splitters = to=20 soften the exhaust pulse - and it can rapidly pound stainless steel (or = anything=20 else) into pieces.   While I have never had exhaust blockage, = I have=20 had internal pieces depart the muffler.  I suspect after=20 several hundred hours my Hushpower II mufflers no longer have much = of=20 anything internal but the metal mesh cone=20 remaining.

 

While a turbocharger would = probably=20 soften the exhaust pulse quite a bit - a supercharger as you fly with, = of=20 course, will not.

 

Well, it clear that there = was little=20 you could do in the air about the muffler blockage - had I been a bit = more=20 astute, I could have probable recovered engine power on my two = unintentional=20 engine outs.  Hindsight is just so wonderful=20 {:>)

 

Good flying, good = decisions and it=20 ended well - well, except perhaps for your seat=20 cushion.

 

Ed

Edward L. = Anderson
Anderson = Electronic=20 Enterprises LLC
305 = Reefton=20 Road
Weddington, NC = 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com=

 

From: Bobby J. Hughes=20

Sent: Sunday,=20 March 20, 2011 4:02 PM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Forced Landing. =

 

Since it=92s been so quiet lately.=20

 

I had a complete loss of engine power = yesterday during=20 climb out from Tyler TX (KTYR). I had executed a Vx climb to see you hot = I could=20 get the oil with the supplemental oil cool I recently added. The engine = was=20 running but stopped making any power. I switch fuel tanks, adjusted the = mixture=20 both directions, toggled the primary injector switch for cold start and = check my=20 breakers. I did everything but switch to the B controller. All the=20 troubleshooting took place in about 10 seconds or less. At that time my = AOA=20 starting telling me =93angle, angle, push, push=94 . Glad I had the AOA = as I=92m not=20 sure my attention was focused on the right priorities. I told the tower = I had an=20 engine failure and was landing. 35. Very happy this happened at an = airport with=20 three long runways with different headings. I pointed the nose down and = made a=20 right turn to the runway. The landing was downwind with 15 knot wind. I = was too=20 fast and used all 3500ft I had left. I coasted onto a taxiway with the = engine=20 idling very rough. I couldn=92t make enough power to taxi. The FBO was = there=20 within two minutes and towed me back to their hanger. At this point I = figured I=20 had lost an apex seals. I pulled the prop through but had good = compression. I=20 pulled the cowl and everything was in place. Up until now I had remained = very=20 calm but that changed when I realized there was no smoking gun. I = checked my=20 injector power connections at the switches but everything seem good. The = EC2=20 coil test worked but the injector test did not. I attempted an engine = start and=20 it ran normally. =93What the h***=94 I later realized I had not = activated the cold=20 start switch for the injector test. Injectors tested fine. I was at a = complete=20 loss as what to look at next. I thought about a CAS intermediate failure = but=20 nothing I could come up with fit the problem. After another five minute = full=20 power run to 38=94MP on both controllers I rolled the plane back into = the FBO=92s=20 hanger and took a break. So here I am 200 miles from home after a forced = landing=20 and the plane is making full power as usual. Now the nerves set in full = force.=20 It downed on me to check the muffler for blockage. From what I could see = with a=20 flashlight the cone in my HushpowerII was out of place. I dropped the = muffler=20 from the belly and about a =BD=94 cup of material came out. It was small = pieces of=20 mess from the cone. About 1/3 of the entrance side cone was still intact = but the=20 rest was gone. The internal steel support that forms the cone was still = intact=20 but movable with a large screw driver. I knocked as much out as I could = and=20 reinstalled the muffler. I was unable to knock out any of the mesh that = was=20 still in place. I decided to conduct a flight test over the airport for = ten=20 minutes. If all was good then I would head for home and climb to 8500 = for the=20 trip back. The headwind at 8500 would add 20 minutes to the flight = unless I ran=20 the engine above 30=94 MP. I didn=92t think it was a good time to stress = the muffler=20 any more than necessary. I took off and climbed to 3000 ft on the B = controller=20 and circled for several laps. I switched controllers, fuel, injector = cold start,=20 coils and everything was normal. So I nervously departed for the 200 = mile trip.=20 I picked up flight following and had the autopilot/ flight director take = me=20 home. I spent the entire flight with the nearest airport active on my = Advanced=20 EFIS moving map. It draws a line, gives a distance and runway lengths. I = also=20 check airport information on my ipad and Foreflight. The flight was = uneventful=20 but was the most stressful I have ever experienced.=20

 

I=92m guessing the muffler internals came = loose and slid=20 rearward trapping all the small come material that was dislodged. I was=20 somewhere between Vx and Vy at a very high angle of attack when the = problem=20 occurred. The muffler is parallel l with the bottom of the fuselage so I = believe=20 any small dislodged material would remain inside the muffler. The plan = now is to=20 go through the entire electrical system and check every connection = associated=20 with the EC2 and fuel delivery. I will also be looking for a different = muffle=20 and putting the plane back into flight testing until I can regain my = confidence=20 with the install. I am also very thankful none of my family was onboard. = My=20 teenage daughter had decided she didn=92t want to spend the remainder of = spring=20 break with me visiting my sister.

 

Bobby Hughes

(shaken not stirred)---- check your=20 mufflers!!!!

--
Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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