X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [208.80.144.20] (HELO mail.royell.org) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2) with ESMTPS id 4913100 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 00:11:53 -0400 Received-SPF: error receiver=logan.com; client-ip=208.80.144.20; envelope-from=dvanwinkle@royell.org Received: from IBM04421E67337 ([208.80.148.124]) by mail.royell.org (Royell Mail Server) with SMTP (SSL) id EHG12215 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 23:11:15 -0500 Message-ID: <96B1A6515F4B4CB7AFFC92928F97D2E6@IBM04421E67337> From: "Dean Van Winkle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 23:11:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CBE754.1B4B9B40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 110320-1, 03/20/2011), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CBE754.1B4B9B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David Mistral had the test aircraft at Oshkosh one year. They had a secondary = muffler in addition to the mostly inconel muffler of their own design. = I was told, I believe it was the next year at Oshkosh again, that the = secondary muffler had choked up and caused the loss of the aircraft. Dean Van Winkle RV-9A, 89 13B NA dvanwinkle@royell.org =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David Leonard=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:26 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. I also have had several mufflers fall apart in sort order, even with = my turbo, and I no longer use one. The mistral guys lost their aircraft = due to a clogged muffler (professionally custom made). =20 I did have a DNA muffler that did not fall apart (yet), but it REALLY = robbed my power. I was down about 20% in top end power so I removed it. = It nicely cut down on the pitch and didn't weigh alot, so I was sorry = to see it go. A nice long straight pipe seems to do a pretty good job at cutting = down on the sound levels without much cost or risk of bringing down my = plane. I have been using that for the last couple hundred hours and = don't expect that I will ever change. --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Mark Steitle = wrote: Bill, =20 The DNA (Dynamic Noise Attenuation) muffler is the only one I've = used that has not self-destructed in a matter of hours, except for the = tangential muffler which was too restrictive and caused other problems = and gave poor performance. (I should have listened to Lynn.) The DNA = is not as quiet as other mufflers, but it has worked for about 100 hours = so far with no sign of fatigue. Also, it has no packing to blow/burn = out. ANR headsets are a given. Mark =20 On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Bobby, That is an excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to = discover the cause of the problem. I am wondering why you have a = muffler if you have a turbo? My Hushpower is welded in and up inside the cowl. I would not be = able to see inside if or remove or replace it with the current setup. = This incident has really made me start to think about the muffler.. = Thanks for the great report! Bill B -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes=20 Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Forced Landing.=20 Since it=92s been so quiet lately.=20 I had a complete loss of engine power yesterday during climb out = from Tyler TX (KTYR). I had executed a Vx climb to see you hot I could = get the oil with the supplemental oil cool I recently added. The engine = was running but stopped making any power. I switch fuel tanks, adjusted = the mixture both directions, toggled the primary injector switch for = cold start and check my breakers. I did everything but switch to the B = controller. All the troubleshooting took place in about 10 seconds or = less. At that time my AOA starting telling me =93angle, angle, push, = push=94 . Glad I had the AOA as I=92m not sure my attention was focused = on the right priorities. I told the tower I had an engine failure and = was landing. 35. Very happy this happened at an airport with three long = runways with different headings. I pointed the nose down and made a = right turn to the runway. The landing was downwind with 15 knot wind. I = was too fast and used all 3500ft I had left. I coasted onto a taxiway = with the engine idling very rough. I couldn=92t make enough power to = taxi. The FBO was there within two minutes and towed me back to their = hanger. At this point I figured I had lost an apex seals. I pulled the = prop through but had good compression. I pulled the cowl and everything = was in place. Up until now I had remained very calm but that changed = when I realized there was no smoking gun. I checked my injector power = connections at the switches but everything seem good. The EC2 coil test = worked but the injector test did not. I attempted an engine start and it = ran normally. =93What the h***=94 I later realized I had not activated = the cold start switch for the injector test. Injectors tested fine. I = was at a complete loss as what to look at next. I thought about a CAS = intermediate failure but nothing I could come up with fit the problem. = After another five minute full power run to 38=94MP on both controllers = I rolled the plane back into the FBO=92s hanger and took a break. So = here I am 200 miles from home after a forced landing and the plane is = making full power as usual. Now the nerves set in full force. It downed = on me to check the muffler for blockage. From what I could see with a = flashlight the cone in my HushpowerII was out of place. I dropped the = muffler from the belly and about a =BD=94 cup of material came out. It = was small pieces of mess from the cone. About 1/3 of the entrance side = cone was still intact but the rest was gone. The internal steel support = that forms the cone was still intact but movable with a large screw = driver. I knocked as much out as I could and reinstalled the muffler. I = was unable to knock out any of the mesh that was still in place. I = decided to conduct a flight test over the airport for ten minutes. If = all was good then I would head for home and climb to 8500 for the trip = back. The headwind at 8500 would add 20 minutes to the flight unless I = ran the engine above 30=94 MP. I didn=92t think it was a good time to = stress the muffler any more than necessary. I took off and climbed to = 3000 ft on the B controller and circled for several laps. I switched = controllers, fuel, injector cold start, coils and everything was normal. = So I nervously departed for the 200 mile trip. I picked up flight = following and had the autopilot/ flight director take me home. I spent = the entire flight with the nearest airport active on my Advanced EFIS = moving map. It draws a line, gives a distance and runway lengths. I also = check airport information on my ipad and Foreflight. The flight was = uneventful but was the most stressful I have ever experienced.=20 I=92m guessing the muffler internals came loose and slid rearward = trapping all the small come material that was dislodged. I was somewhere = between Vx and Vy at a very high angle of attack when the problem = occurred. The muffler is parallel l with the bottom of the fuselage so I = believe any small dislodged material would remain inside the muffler. = The plan now is to go through the entire electrical system and check = every connection associated with the EC2 and fuel delivery. I will also = be looking for a different muffle and putting the plane back into flight = testing until I can regain my confidence with the install. I am also = very thankful none of my family was onboard. My teenage daughter had = decided she didn=92t want to spend the remainder of spring break with me = visiting my sister.=20 Bobby Hughes (shaken not stirred)---- check your mufflers!!!! ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CBE754.1B4B9B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
David
 
Mistral had the test aircraft at = Oshkosh one=20 year.  They had a secondary muffler in addition to the mostly = inconel=20 muffler of their own design.  I was told, I believe it was the next = year at=20 Oshkosh again, that the secondary muffler had choked up and caused the = loss of=20 the aircraft.
 
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A, 89 13B NA
dvanwinkle@royell.org =20
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 David=20 Leonard
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 = 10:26=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced = Landing.

I also have had several mufflers fall apart in sort order, even = with my=20 turbo, and I no longer use one.  The mistral guys lost their=20 aircraft due to a clogged muffler (professionally custom = made). =20
 
I did have a DNA muffler that did not fall apart (yet), but it = REALLY=20 robbed my power.  I was down about 20% in top end power so I = removed=20 it.  It nicely cut down on the pitch and didn't weigh alot, so I = was=20 sorry to see it go.
 
A nice long straight pipe seems to do a pretty good job at = cutting down=20 on the sound levels without much cost or risk of bringing down my = plane. =20 I have been using that for the last couple hundred hours and don't = expect that=20 I will ever change.
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net


<= /DIV>
On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Mark Steitle = <msteitle@gmail.com> = wrote:
Bill, =20

The DNA (Dynamic Noise Attenuation) muffler is the only one = I've used=20 that has not self-destructed in a matter of hours, except for the = tangential=20 muffler which was too restrictive and caused other problems and gave = poor=20 performance.  (I should have listened to Lynn.)  The DNA = is not as=20 quiet as other mufflers, but it has worked for about 100 hours so = far with=20 no sign of fatigue.  Also, it has no packing to blow/burn out.=20  ANR headsets are a given.

Mark  



On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Bill Bradburry = <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> = wrote:

Bobby,

That is = an=20 excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to discover the = cause of=20 the problem.  I am wondering why you have a muffler if you = have a=20 turbo?

 

My = Hushpower is=20 welded in and up inside the cowl.  I would not be able to see = inside=20 if or remove or replace it with the current setup.  This = incident has=20 really made me start to think about the muffler..  Thanks for = the=20 great report!

 

Bill=20 B

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. = Hughes=20


Sent:=20 Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Forced Landing.

 

Since it=92s been so quiet lately.=20

 

I had a complete loss of engine power = yesterday=20 during climb out from Tyler TX (KTYR). I had executed a Vx climb = to see=20 you hot I could get the oil with the supplemental oil cool I = recently=20 added. The engine was running but stopped making any power. I = switch fuel=20 tanks, adjusted the mixture both directions, toggled the primary = injector=20 switch for cold start and check my breakers. I did everything but = switch=20 to the B controller. All the troubleshooting took place in about = 10=20 seconds or less. At that time my AOA starting telling me =93angle, = angle,=20 push, push=94 . Glad I had the AOA as I=92m not sure my attention = was focused=20 on the right priorities. I told the tower I had an engine failure = and was=20 landing. 35. Very happy this happened at an airport with three = long=20 runways with different headings. I pointed the nose down and made = a right=20 turn to the runway. The landing was downwind with 15 knot wind. I = was too=20 fast and used all 3500ft I had left. I coasted onto a taxiway with = the=20 engine idling very rough. I couldn=92t make enough power to taxi. = The FBO=20 was there within two minutes and towed me back to their hanger. At = this=20 point I figured I had lost an apex seals. I pulled the prop = through but=20 had good compression. I pulled the cowl and everything was in = place. Up=20 until now I had remained very calm but that changed when I = realized there=20 was no smoking gun. I checked my injector power connections at the = switches but everything seem good. The EC2 coil test worked but = the=20 injector test did not. I attempted an engine start and it ran = normally.=20 =93What the h***=94 I later realized I had not activated the cold = start switch=20 for the injector test. Injectors tested fine. I was at a complete = loss as=20 what to look at next. I thought about a CAS intermediate failure = but=20 nothing I could come up with fit the problem. After another five = minute=20 full power run to 38=94MP on both controllers I rolled the plane = back into=20 the FBO=92s hanger and took a break. So here I am 200 miles from = home after=20 a forced landing and the plane is making full power as usual. Now = the=20 nerves set in full force. It downed on me to check the muffler for = blockage. From what I could see with a flashlight the cone in my=20 HushpowerII was out of place. I dropped the muffler from the belly = and=20 about a =BD=94 cup of material came out. It was small pieces of = mess from the=20 cone. About 1/3 of the entrance side cone was still intact but the = rest=20 was gone. The internal steel support that forms the cone was still = intact=20 but movable with a large screw driver. I knocked as much out as I = could=20 and reinstalled the muffler. I was unable to knock out any of the = mesh=20 that was still in place. I decided to conduct a flight test over = the=20 airport for ten minutes. If all was good then I would head for = home and=20 climb to 8500 for the trip back. The headwind at 8500 would add 20 = minutes=20 to the flight unless I ran the engine above 30=94 MP. I didn=92t = think it was=20 a good time to stress the muffler any more than necessary. I took = off and=20 climbed to 3000 ft on the B controller and circled for several = laps. I=20 switched controllers, fuel, injector cold start, coils and = everything was=20 normal. So I nervously departed for the 200 mile trip. I picked up = flight=20 following and had the autopilot/ flight director take me home. I = spent the=20 entire flight with the nearest airport active on my Advanced EFIS = moving=20 map. It draws a line, gives a distance and runway lengths. I also = check=20 airport information on my ipad and Foreflight. The flight was = uneventful=20 but was the most stressful I have ever experienced. =

 

I=92m guessing the muffler internals = came loose and=20 slid rearward trapping all the small come material that was = dislodged. I=20 was somewhere between Vx and Vy at a very high angle of attack = when the=20 problem occurred. The muffler is parallel l with the bottom of the = fuselage so I believe any small dislodged material would remain = inside the=20 muffler. The plan now is to go through the entire electrical = system and=20 check every connection associated with the EC2 and fuel delivery. = I will=20 also be looking for a different muffle and putting the plane back = into=20 flight testing until I can regain my confidence with the install. = I am=20 also very thankful none of my family was onboard. My teenage = daughter had=20 decided she didn=92t want to spend the remainder of spring break = with me=20 visiting my sister.

 

Bobby Hughes

(shaken not stirred)---- check your=20 = mufflers!!!!

=



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