X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qw0-f52.google.com ([209.85.216.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2) with ESMTPS id 4913105 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 23:27:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.52; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by qwb8 with SMTP id 8so6331147qwb.25 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:26:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=i7k+9KKybVz+l3lM74dBr0N4zzbM4RsTi9JVOs/3qMM=; b=GC5jFaVxezgo/yp1shiHsZl29VAYbRoeBiSaXSDeHSNM6y9i8Ees44JWSOAwmOTcjJ VzcTKmbrVTD3nP58MEmWwvDQHvNRCOoUIWZ5cZMceaijWnkf2Pyv8mDAbSVbBDi7/2Vf vNKcpgn9QJEVU7tw2ET2AU0MFRg4ZoOyfo18k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=LJWRLuBR9oq9MyKF5x88HKHe3N4cUaLGFsMnMWHgkJ4G8BLcAlKeCMuf42TOF9hjDJ VMKDgBz9VQlB7P/ZZ1lIJiSU/ZUOpHfNBep93WhkLtyeqWviDF2txTbvmjX4YRYlB+bc BG24thra3/2bHiAxA88vpNPS1NSszhwCvtNYg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.3.81 with SMTP id 17mr270432qcm.179.1300678009759; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.40.81 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:26:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:26:49 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364eeb1abd2829049ef5b224 --0016364eeb1abd2829049ef5b224 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I also have had several mufflers fall apart in sort order, even with my turbo, and I no longer use one. The mistral guys lost their aircraft due t= o a clogged muffler (professionally custom made). I did have a DNA muffler that did not fall apart (yet), but it REALLY robbe= d my power. I was down about 20% in top end power so I removed it. It nicel= y cut down on the pitch and didn't weigh alot, so I was sorry to see it go. A nice long straight pipe seems to do a pretty good job at cutting down on the sound levels without much cost or risk of bringing down my plane. I have been using that for the last couple hundred hours and don't expect tha= t I will ever change. --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > Bill, > > The DNA (Dynamic Noise Attenuation) muffler is the only one I've used tha= t > has not self-destructed in a matter of hours, except for the tangential > muffler which was too restrictive and caused other problems and gave poor > performance. (I should have listened to Lynn.) The DNA is not as quiet = as > other mufflers, but it has worked for about 100 hours so far with no sign= of > fatigue. Also, it has no packing to blow/burn out. ANR headsets are a > given. > > Mark > > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Bill Bradburry > wrote: > >> Bobby, >> >> That is an excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to discover >> the cause of the problem. I am wondering why you have a muffler if you = have >> a turbo? >> >> >> >> My Hushpower is welded in and up inside the cowl. I would not be able t= o >> see inside if or remove or replace it with the current setup. This inci= dent >> has really made me start to think about the muffler.. Thanks for the gr= eat >> report! >> >> >> >> Bill B >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *= On >> Behalf Of *Bobby J. Hughes >> >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:02 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Forced Landing. >> >> >> >> Since it=92s been so quiet lately. >> >> >> >> I had a complete loss of engine power yesterday during climb out from >> Tyler TX (KTYR). I had executed a Vx climb to see you hot I could get th= e >> oil with the supplemental oil cool I recently added. The engine was runn= ing >> but stopped making any power. I switch fuel tanks, adjusted the mixture = both >> directions, toggled the primary injector switch for cold start and check= my >> breakers. I did everything but switch to the B controller. All the >> troubleshooting took place in about 10 seconds or less. At that time my = AOA >> starting telling me =93angle, angle, push, push=94 . Glad I had the AOA = as I=92m >> not sure my attention was focused on the right priorities. I told the to= wer >> I had an engine failure and was landing. 35. Very happy this happened at= an >> airport with three long runways with different headings. I pointed the n= ose >> down and made a right turn to the runway. The landing was downwind with = 15 >> knot wind. I was too fast and used all 3500ft I had left. I coasted onto= a >> taxiway with the engine idling very rough. I couldn=92t make enough powe= r to >> taxi. The FBO was there within two minutes and towed me back to their >> hanger. At this point I figured I had lost an apex seals. I pulled the p= rop >> through but had good compression. I pulled the cowl and everything was i= n >> place. Up until now I had remained very calm but that changed when I >> realized there was no smoking gun. I checked my injector power connectio= ns >> at the switches but everything seem good. The EC2 coil test worked but t= he >> injector test did not. I attempted an engine start and it ran normally. >> =93What the h***=94 I later realized I had not activated the cold start = switch >> for the injector test. Injectors tested fine. I was at a complete loss a= s >> what to look at next. I thought about a CAS intermediate failure but not= hing >> I could come up with fit the problem. After another five minute full pow= er >> run to 38=94MP on both controllers I rolled the plane back into the FBO= =92s >> hanger and took a break. So here I am 200 miles from home after a forced >> landing and the plane is making full power as usual. Now the nerves set = in >> full force. It downed on me to check the muffler for blockage. From what= I >> could see with a flashlight the cone in my HushpowerII was out of place.= I >> dropped the muffler from the belly and about a =BD=94 cup of material ca= me out. >> It was small pieces of mess from the cone. About 1/3 of the entrance sid= e >> cone was still intact but the rest was gone. The internal steel support = that >> forms the cone was still intact but movable with a large screw driver. I >> knocked as much out as I could and reinstalled the muffler. I was unable= to >> knock out any of the mesh that was still in place. I decided to conduct = a >> flight test over the airport for ten minutes. If all was good then I wou= ld >> head for home and climb to 8500 for the trip back. The headwind at 8500 >> would add 20 minutes to the flight unless I ran the engine above 30=94 M= P. I >> didn=92t think it was a good time to stress the muffler any more than >> necessary. I took off and climbed to 3000 ft on the B controller and cir= cled >> for several laps. I switched controllers, fuel, injector cold start, coi= ls >> and everything was normal. So I nervously departed for the 200 mile trip= . I >> picked up flight following and had the autopilot/ flight director take m= e >> home. I spent the entire flight with the nearest airport active on my >> Advanced EFIS moving map. It draws a line, gives a distance and runway >> lengths. I also check airport information on my ipad and Foreflight. The >> flight was uneventful but was the most stressful I have ever experienced= . >> >> >> >> I=92m guessing the muffler internals came loose and slid rearward trappi= ng >> all the small come material that was dislodged. I was somewhere between = Vx >> and Vy at a very high angle of attack when the problem occurred. The muf= fler >> is parallel l with the bottom of the fuselage so I believe any small >> dislodged material would remain inside the muffler. The plan now is to g= o >> through the entire electrical system and check every connection associat= ed >> with the EC2 and fuel delivery. I will also be looking for a different >> muffle and putting the plane back into flight testing until I can regain= my >> confidence with the install. I am also very thankful none of my family w= as >> onboard. My teenage daughter had decided she didn=92t want to spend the >> remainder of spring break with me visiting my sister. >> >> >> >> Bobby Hughes >> >> (shaken not stirred)---- check your mufflers!!!! >> > > --0016364eeb1abd2829049ef5b224 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also have had several mufflers fall apart in sort order, even with m= y turbo, and I no longer use one.=A0 The mistral guys lost their aircraft= =A0due to a clogged muffler (professionally custom made).=A0
=A0
I did have a DNA muffler that did not fall apart (yet), but it REALLY = robbed my power.=A0 I was down about 20% in top end power so I removed it.= =A0 It nicely cut down on the pitch and didn't weigh alot, so I was sor= ry to see it go.
=A0
A nice long straight pipe seems to do a pretty good job at cutting dow= n on the sound levels without much cost or risk of bringing down my plane.= =A0 I have been using that for the last couple hundred hours and don't = expect that I will ever change.
=A0
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.co= m> wrote:
Bill,=A0=20

The DNA (Dynamic Noise Attenuation) muffler is the only one I've u= sed that has not self-destructed in a matter of hours, except for the tange= ntial muffler which was too restrictive and caused other problems and gave = poor performance. =A0(I should have listened to Lynn.) =A0The DNA is not as= quiet as other mufflers, but it has worked for about 100 hours so far with= no sign of fatigue. =A0Also, it has no packing to blow/burn out. =A0ANR he= adsets are a given.

Mark =A0



On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Bill Bradburry <= bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Bobby,

That is an exce= llent job of both flying and troubleshooting to discover the cause of the p= roblem.=A0 I am wondering why you have a muffler if you have a turbo?

=A0

My Hushpower is= welded in and up inside the cowl.=A0 I would not be able to see inside if = or remove or replace it with the current setup.=A0 This incident has really= made me start to think about the muffler..=A0 Thanks for the great report!=

=A0

Bill B

=A0

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes= =20


Sent:= Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:02 PM
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Forced Landing.

=A0

Since it=92s been so quiet lately.

=A0

I had a complete loss of engine power yesterday durin= g climb out from Tyler TX (KTYR). I had executed a Vx climb to see you hot = I could get the oil with the supplemental oil cool I recently added. The en= gine was running but stopped making any power. I switch fuel tanks, adjuste= d the mixture both directions, toggled the primary injector switch for cold= start and check my breakers. I did everything but switch to the B controll= er. All the troubleshooting took place in about 10 seconds or less. At that= time my AOA starting telling me =93angle, angle, push, push=94 . Glad I ha= d the AOA as I=92m not sure my attention was focused on the right prioritie= s. I told the tower I had an engine failure and was landing. 35. Very happy= this happened at an airport with three long runways with different heading= s. I pointed the nose down and made a right turn to the runway. The landing= was downwind with 15 knot wind. I was too fast and used all 3500ft I had l= eft. I coasted onto a taxiway with the engine idling very rough. I couldn= =92t make enough power to taxi. The FBO was there within two minutes and to= wed me back to their hanger. At this point I figured I had lost an apex sea= ls. I pulled the prop through but had good compression. I pulled the cowl a= nd everything was in place. Up until now I had remained very calm but that = changed when I realized there was no smoking gun. I checked my injector pow= er connections at the switches but everything seem good. The EC2 coil test = worked but the injector test did not. I attempted an engine start and it ra= n normally. =93What the h***=94 I later realized I had not activated the co= ld start switch for the injector test. Injectors tested fine. I was at a co= mplete loss as what to look at next. I thought about a CAS intermediate fai= lure but nothing I could come up with fit the problem. After another five m= inute full power run to 38=94MP on both controllers I rolled the plane back= into the FBO=92s hanger and took a break. So here I am 200 miles from home= after a forced landing and the plane is making full power as usual. Now th= e nerves set in full force. It downed on me to check the muffler for blocka= ge. From what I could see with a flashlight the cone in my HushpowerII was = out of place. I dropped the muffler from the belly and about a =BD=94 cup o= f material came out. It was small pieces of mess from the cone. About 1/3 o= f the entrance side cone was still intact but the rest was gone. The intern= al steel support that forms the cone was still intact but movable with a la= rge screw driver. I knocked as much out as I could and reinstalled the muff= ler. I was unable to knock out any of the mesh that was still in place. I d= ecided to conduct a flight test over the airport for ten minutes. If all wa= s good then I would head for home and climb to 8500 for the trip back. The = headwind at 8500 would add 20 minutes to the flight unless I ran the engine= above 30=94 MP. I didn=92t think it was a good time to stress the muffler = any more than necessary. I took off and climbed to 3000 ft on the B control= ler and circled for several laps. I switched controllers, fuel, injector co= ld start, coils and everything was normal. So I nervously departed for the = 200 mile trip. I picked up flight following and had the autopilot/ flight d= irector take me home. I spent the entire flight with the nearest airport ac= tive on my Advanced EFIS moving map. It draws a line, gives a distance and = runway lengths. I also check airport information on my ipad and Foreflight.= The flight was uneventful but was the most stressful I have ever experienc= ed.

=A0

I=92m guessing the muffler internals came loose and s= lid rearward trapping all the small come material that was dislodged. I was= somewhere between Vx and Vy at a very high angle of attack when the proble= m occurred. The muffler is parallel l with the bottom of the fuselage so I = believe any small dislodged material would remain inside the muffler. The p= lan now is to go through the entire electrical system and check every conne= ction associated with the EC2 and fuel delivery. I will also be looking for= a different muffle and putting the plane back into flight testing until I = can regain my confidence with the install. I am also very thankful none of = my family was onboard. My teenage daughter had decided she didn=92t want to= spend the remainder of spring break with me visiting my sister.

=A0

Bobby Hughes

(shaken not stirred)---- check your mufflers!!!!





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