X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [66.219.56.245] (HELO mail.qnsi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2) with ESMTP id 4912902 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:49:31 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.245; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CBE762.85F7FFE8" Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:54:24 -0600 Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <74120FDE88CAFE4DBDA8814BCE20A3F32A9923@qnsi-mail.qnsi.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: thread-topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Thread-Index: AcvnXguMDqGH6YlMQiWUjIJMt3tArgAAYpVg References: From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CBE762.85F7FFE8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Al. I think my egt's or in the normal range for a renesis. Maybe Tracy has more specific information. Several other have been flying the HP mufflers so it seemed to be a logical choice. After the first one failed in the cowl I relocated the replacement to the belly. The relocation was mainly to remove extra heat from the cowl but hoped it would also help the muffler survive longer. I would like more information on your muffler design. I'll check your old posts for the info. =20 Bobby =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietz Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:16 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 Bobby; =20 Very capable handling of an emergency. We are thankful for that. =20 A couple of comments. It seems to me your EGT readings are suspiciously low. I run NA 9.0:1 rotors in my 20B, and the peak EGTs are up around 1675F. At rich climb they are maybe 50 less; and I lean to just under 1600 for lean cruise. I'm measuring about 2" form the port. So maybe your muffler is seeing higher temps than you think. =20 We've heard of a number of muffler failures on this list. It troubles me that some of you are taking the risk of flying an off-the-shelf muffler; the internal failure of which can cause blocking of the exhaust flow. It seems to be a known risk of an off-airport landing. There are options. Yeah; a custom inconel muffler (or some heavy walled 321) will set you back some bucks; but . . .=20 =20 Al =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 3:03 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 It's supercharged. My EGT's never get over 1540F. Most of the time they run in the 1400's. I am also not 100% convinced the muffler was to blame. But it seems to fit the symptoms. I can't confirm the muffler was blocked after landing while trying to taxi. One theory is the exhaust pressure was enough to keep all the little pieces in place until after shutdown. Then towing the plane shook everything loose. Wonder if I could talk Mark S. into sticking a banana in the tail pipe on a full power ground run to duplicate the problem? This is my second HP-2 muffler in about 100 hours of engine time. It may have 25 hours of flight time. The first one was inside the cowl and angled down and back. It lost all the mesh and cone material. The angle may have helped some of the loose material exit the muffler. But it's all speculation.=20 =20 Bobby =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 3:25 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 I believe he is supercharged, not turboed. BW =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:11 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 Bobby, That is an excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to discover the cause of the problem. I am wondering why you have a muffler if you have a turbo? =20 My Hushpower is welded in and up inside the cowl. I would not be able to see inside if or remove or replace it with the current setup. This incident has really made me start to think about the muffler.. Thanks for the great report! =20 Bill B =20 ________________________________ =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CBE762.85F7FFE8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Al. I think my egt’s = or in the normal range for a renesis. Maybe Tracy has more specific information. Several other have been flying the HP = mufflers so it seemed to be a logical choice. After the first one failed in the = cowl I relocated the replacement to the belly. The relocation was mainly to remove extra = heat from the cowl but hoped it would also help the muffler survive longer. I = would like more information on your muffler design. I’ll check your old = posts for the info.

 

Bobby  =   

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietz
Sent: Sunday, March 20, = 2011 6:16 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Forced Landing.

 

Bobby;

 

Very capable handling of an = emergency.  We are thankful for that.

 

A couple of comments.  It = seems to me your EGT readings are suspiciously low.  I run NA 9.0:1 rotors = in my 20B, and the peak EGTs are up around 1675F.  At rich climb they are = maybe 50 less; and I lean to just under 1600 for lean cruise.  I’m measuring about 2” form the port.  So maybe your muffler is = seeing higher temps than you think.

 

We’ve heard of a number of = muffler failures on this list. It troubles me that some of you are taking the = risk of flying an off-the-shelf muffler; the internal failure of which can cause blocking of the exhaust flow. It seems to be a known risk of an = off-airport landing.  There are options.  Yeah; a custom inconel muffler = (or some heavy walled 321) will set you back some bucks; but  . . . =

 

Al

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Sunday, March 20, = 2011 3:03 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Forced Landing.

 

It’s = supercharged. My EGT’s never get over 1540F. Most of the time they run in the 1400’s. I am also not 100% convinced the muffler was to blame. But = it seems to fit the symptoms. I can’t confirm the muffler was blocked = after landing while trying to taxi. One theory is the exhaust pressure was = enough to keep all the little pieces in place until after shutdown. Then towing = the plane shook everything loose. Wonder if I could talk Mark S. into sticking a = banana in the tail pipe on a full power ground run to duplicate the problem? = This is my second HP-2 muffler in about 100 hours of engine time. It may have 25 = hours of flight time. The first one was inside the cowl and angled down and = back. It lost all the mesh and cone material. The angle may have helped some of = the loose material exit the muffler. But it’s all speculation. =

 

Bobby

 

=

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Sunday, March 20, = 2011 3:25 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Forced Landing.

 

I believe he is supercharged, not turboed.

BW<= o:p>

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, March 20, = 2011 5:11 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Forced Landing.

 

Bobby,

That is an = excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to discover the cause of the = problem.  I am wondering why you have a muffler if you have a = turbo?

 

My Hushpower is = welded in and up inside the cowl.  I would not be able to see inside if or = remove or replace it with the current setup.  This incident has really made = me start to think about the muffler..  Thanks for the great = report!

 

Bill = B

 

 

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