X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mta21.charter.net ([216.33.127.81] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2) with ESMTP id 4912911 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:20:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.81; envelope-from=cardmarc@charter.net Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta21.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20110320231931.BAKC11571.mta21.charter.net@imp09> for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:19:31 -0400 Received: from HomeDesktop ([97.94.193.28]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id MbKW1g00T0dDVdd05bKWWK; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:19:31 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=oIv04XXdEYh2MbYuDfZqeaswiw9+RGe2txZblPR/Lr4= c=1 sm=1 a=7hNqnL6pfl4A:10 a=4sash9Gc6afUAQh1p1CCVg==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=GpHY_7JiUtW9eXFY90cA:9 a=cd6N30mfaRi947FQ0a0A:7 a=BjCiuamln1c_GSLc7yObTQ-0dj8A:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=k1QFhaE0n5XWBmKP:21 a=YlOJSMr-yLVeD-Es:21 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=0rAAj0PqnT5-18D8LmUA:9 a=cJuqQaH9G6B9ZzlHr4YA:7 a=naibzLdYyTy2ivGLvqV5xLyy4gcA:4 a=4sash9Gc6afUAQh1p1CCVg==:117 From: "Marc Wiese" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Muffler failures causes downings Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:19:31 -0500 Message-ID: <011001cbe755$4487d4a0$cd977de0$@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0111_01CBE72B.5BB41690" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AcvnVUQjm/nJNZxlSSmNatFp41Q1wQ== Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0111_01CBE72B.5BB41690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe you have suffered the regular muffler failure mode that downed Mistral's test plane and disabled several others over the years. In my experience with turbo rx7's, the mufflers were VERY heavy and made of high strength heavy metal of a unique design unlike piston mufflers...unlikely to be installed on my 20B turbo engine. I will forego any muffler completely unless and until one is made of heavy Inconel with internal bracing and a DEMONSTRATED benign failure mode. I can get by with an active headset until then. Marc From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:03 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. It's supercharged. My EGT's never get over 1540F. Most of the time they run in the 1400's. I am also not 100% convinced the muffler was to blame. But it seems to fit the symptoms. I can't confirm the muffler was blocked after landing while trying to taxi. One theory is the exhaust pressure was enough to keep all the little pieces in place until after shutdown. Then towing the plane shook everything loose. Wonder if I could talk Mark S. into sticking a banana in the tail pipe on a full power ground run to duplicate the problem? This is my second HP-2 muffler in about 100 hours of engine time. It may have 25 hours of flight time. The first one was inside the cowl and angled down and back. It lost all the mesh and cone material. The angle may have helped some of the loose material exit the muffler. But it's all speculation. Bobby _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 3:25 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. I believe he is supercharged, not turboed. BW _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:11 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. Bobby, That is an excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to discover the cause of the problem. I am wondering why you have a muffler if you have a turbo? My Hushpower is welded in and up inside the cowl. I would not be able to see inside if or remove or replace it with the current setup. This incident has really made me start to think about the muffler.. Thanks for the great report! Bill B _____ ------=_NextPart_000_0111_01CBE72B.5BB41690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I believe you = have suffered the regular muffler failure mode that downed = Mistral’s test plane and disabled several others over the years. = In my experience with turbo rx7’s, the mufflers were VERY heavy = and made of high strength heavy metal of a unique design unlike piston = mufflers…..unlikely to be installed on my 20B turbo engine.  = I will forego any muffler completely unless and until one is made of = heavy Inconel with internal bracing and a DEMONSTRATED benign failure = mode. I can get by with an active headset until = then.

Marc

 

From:= = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 = 6:03 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.

 

It= ’s supercharged. My EGT’s never get over 1540F. Most of the = time they run in the 1400’s. I am also not 100% convinced the = muffler was to blame. But it seems to fit the symptoms. I can’t = confirm the muffler was blocked after landing while trying to taxi. One = theory is the exhaust pressure was enough to keep all the little pieces = in place until after shutdown. Then towing the plane shook everything = loose. Wonder if I could talk Mark S. into sticking a banana in the tail = pipe on a full power ground run to duplicate the problem? This is my = second HP-2 muffler in about 100 hours of engine time. It may have 25 = hours of flight time. The first one was inside the cowl and angled down = and back. It lost all the mesh and cone material. The angle may have = helped some of the loose material exit the muffler. But it’s all = speculation.

 

Bo= bby

 

From:= = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 3:25 = PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.

 

I = believe he is supercharged, not turboed.

BW=

 

From:= = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:11 = PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.

 

Bo= bby,

Th= at is an excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to discover = the cause of the problem.  I am wondering why you have a muffler if = you have a turbo?

 

My= Hushpower is welded in and up inside the cowl.  I would not be = able to see inside if or remove or replace it with the current = setup.  This incident has really made me start to think about the = muffler..  Thanks for the great report!

 

Bi= ll B

 

 

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