X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmfepo103.cox.net ([68.230.241.145] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2) with ESMTP id 4912888 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:16:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.145; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmfepo103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.04.00 201-2260-137-20101110) with ESMTP id <20110320231613.DUDY20516.fed1rmfepo103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:16:13 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.199.216.14]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id MbGD1g00L0KDB3c04bGDzj; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:16:13 -0400 X-VR-Score: 0.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=+7g07FftAVK5SzfBDSzY8IJIWiAWL38p2qa3Op/8zMo= c=1 sm=1 a=3t6DDDcNRyoA:10 a=TPvrVRyicAsl4VeEYn0L5g==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=Rn427LfM-R2zrE88lr4A:9 a=HyamE9F0JOfhHTkJZXIA:7 a=-cZU0bah4G31nvF_hBXoBRJV7vgA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=ioDuXp6gmDjfMVia:21 a=A6DMJd4TJsP6D2rl:21 a=sGfzunUXUe_BE3eHGCIA:7 a=AT62U0_swc_CmJwBygAV7Tdh1NwA:4 a=TPvrVRyicAsl4VeEYn0L5g==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing. Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 16:16:06 -0800 Message-ID: <93042938285C4D1B8517313525C63E42@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01CBE71A.1E202460" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6863 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AcvnSefuhcsuOsPZTB2AvvcxxysibQAERMEg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CBE71A.1E202460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bobby; =20 Very capable handling of an emergency. We are thankful for that. =20 A couple of comments. It seems to me your EGT readings are suspiciously low. I run NA 9.0:1 rotors in my 20B, and the peak EGTs are up around 1675F. At rich climb they are maybe 50 less; and I lean to just under = 1600 for lean cruise. I'm measuring about 2" form the port. So maybe your muffler is seeing higher temps than you think. =20 We've heard of a number of muffler failures on this list. It troubles me that some of you are taking the risk of flying an off-the-shelf muffler; = the internal failure of which can cause blocking of the exhaust flow. It = seems to be a known risk of an off-airport landing. There are options. Yeah; = a custom inconel muffler (or some heavy walled 321) will set you back some bucks; but . . .=20 =20 Al =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 3:03 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 It's supercharged. My EGT's never get over 1540F. Most of the time they = run in the 1400's. I am also not 100% convinced the muffler was to blame. = But it seems to fit the symptoms. I can't confirm the muffler was blocked after landing while trying to taxi. One theory is the exhaust pressure was = enough to keep all the little pieces in place until after shutdown. Then towing = the plane shook everything loose. Wonder if I could talk Mark S. into = sticking a banana in the tail pipe on a full power ground run to duplicate the = problem? This is my second HP-2 muffler in about 100 hours of engine time. It may have 25 hours of flight time. The first one was inside the cowl and = angled down and back. It lost all the mesh and cone material. The angle may = have helped some of the loose material exit the muffler. But it's all speculation.=20 =20 Bobby =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 3:25 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 I believe he is supercharged, not turboed. BW =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:11 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.=20 =20 Bobby, That is an excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to discover = the cause of the problem. I am wondering why you have a muffler if you have = a turbo? =20 My Hushpower is welded in and up inside the cowl. I would not be able = to see inside if or remove or replace it with the current setup. This = incident has really made me start to think about the muffler.. Thanks for the = great report! =20 Bill B =20 _____ =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CBE71A.1E202460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bobby;

 

Very capable handling of an = emergency.  We are thankful for that.

 

A couple of comments.  It = seems to me your EGT readings are suspiciously low.  I run NA 9.0:1 rotors = in my 20B, and the peak EGTs are up around 1675F.  At rich climb they are = maybe 50 less; and I lean to just under 1600 for lean cruise.  I’m measuring about 2” form the port.  So maybe your muffler is = seeing higher temps than you think.

 

We’ve heard of a number of = muffler failures on this list. It troubles me that some of you are taking the = risk of flying an off-the-shelf muffler; the internal failure of which can cause blocking of the exhaust flow. It seems to be a known risk of an = off-airport landing.  There are options.  Yeah; a custom inconel muffler = (or some heavy walled 321) will set you back some bucks; but  . . . =

 

Al

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Sunday, March 20, = 2011 3:03 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Forced Landing.

 

It’s = supercharged. My EGT’s never get over 1540F. Most of the time they run in the 1400’s. I am also not 100% convinced the muffler was to blame. But = it seems to fit the symptoms. I can’t confirm the muffler was blocked = after landing while trying to taxi. One theory is the exhaust pressure was = enough to keep all the little pieces in place until after shutdown. Then towing = the plane shook everything loose. Wonder if I could talk Mark S. into sticking a = banana in the tail pipe on a full power ground run to duplicate the problem? = This is my second HP-2 muffler in about 100 hours of engine time. It may have 25 = hours of flight time. The first one was inside the cowl and angled down and = back. It lost all the mesh and cone material. The angle may have helped some of = the loose material exit the muffler. But it’s all speculation. =

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Sunday, March 20, = 2011 3:25 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Forced Landing.

 

I believe he is supercharged, not turboed.

BW<= /p>

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, March 20, = 2011 5:11 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Forced Landing.

 

Bobby,

That is an = excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to discover the cause of the = problem.  I am wondering why you have a muffler if you have a = turbo?

 

My Hushpower is = welded in and up inside the cowl.  I would not be able to see inside if or = remove or replace it with the current setup.  This incident has really made = me start to think about the muffler..  Thanks for the great = report!

 

Bill = B

 

 

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