X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm3.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.130] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2) with SMTP id 4903167 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:29:25 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.130; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.106] by nm3.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2011 15:28:48 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.74] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2011 15:28:48 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1011.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2011 15:28:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 946635.363.bm@omp1011.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 78772 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2011 15:28:48 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1299857328; bh=ip/kdYfZROhibVGxiFn2JuNag5SSgRDByw5jZYrDSCA=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=xBPzUKu8eHYPzb86fthbTeOqHJoDSW9t/rU7WHfuZ8dwGjFThf5S6G/t2ujHFKSRCV4tfHr9c+HDxl4aIVrQRUVY6+YfI/10hWO2Xy/NJWq3gQj0U4Ve0q2i2m4eS6wyyAGe/ncFGAZkmAhj4Z5TetoaN1U82w69KkXMJefwIco= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=C7/z6BuOs5yzaR1JrmZroAOlR6NXDDEHn9AMnt8eUbtSR3pydPr6hPtOf6126Io/TF1XAeFuHWzNKW0BTkp4oLeYUJs0OhdPjDhAWJVjCrfdbG2KWDTn8Bn6NNSxCM1DlWmhhZxS/u+nYuMpOOqbLUgKXk/ajgwMGduT9L5Ryhs=; Message-ID: <414149.73396.qm@web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: NP.hKjUVM1ndeqblQcinq7UlcXWPKxgclMIleacx.Hkx9CT SRKvAqpjfEyRfFoaixkJoelA4wdHYM2Rw6knp5AcG9UsYH3Q1jzCmwdOhPO0 EeEpRjtMD85pX8UJ0LzwsL_CUx9MwdfadiIQV3fwrzGVljmAzot.3A98cUMK F9al1tv1C6hJoTOWUS5t1.Nw_RWcctGq5C.LZbEBRujq_WewY.oHlimw_YRm s2lwdS5ZZaWWTwJbHR6GRSDEVeOHf2KleHqfV0cHUxfTruVjtpa.OTLfnWRj D6DOpCQVUdg-- Received: from [208.114.42.199] by web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 07:28:47 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/559 YahooMailWebService/0.8.109.292656 References: Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 07:28:47 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Turbo Exhaust Temps & MP (was Crankcase ventilation) To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-587413927-1299857327=:73396" --0-587413927-1299857327=:73396 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David and All,=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I took the liberty of adding Fahrenheit= numbers to your Celsius for the =0Adinosaurs=0Alike me in the group that d= o not think in Metric numbers !!................<:)=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DY= KE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"M= ISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_= _______________________________=0AFrom: David Leonard = =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Fri,= March 11, 2011 6:15:36 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Crankcase ventilation= =0A=0A=0AKelly,=0A=0AMy single EGT probe is just down stream of the turbo. = I do my measurements in =0ACelsius.=A0 Peak is about 915C (1679F)=A0or so.= =A0 I usually climb out ROP and with =0Athe reduced RPMs, EGT are in the mi= d 700'sC (1292F+)=A0to low 800'sC (1472F+).=A0 MP =0Aon take off is anywher= e between 30 and 45" depending on my mood and who I am =0Atrying to impress= - though I usually try to keep it=A0under 40".=A0=A0Even then it is =0Afor= only the first 1000' or so, then I=A0usually=A0maintain about 28-30" throu= gh =0Amost of climb, and cruse at 22-30" depending on my mood.=A0ROP cruse = EGTs are 750C =0A(1382F)=A0to 900C (1652F)=A0depending on power, RPM and ho= w rich I make things.=A0 I =0Ausually lean it out=A0just enough to=A0keep E= GT's around 870C=A0(1598F). (that is appx =0A100C (212F)=A0deg ROP).=A0 If = I am using a lot of boost or flying formation (when I =0Acant keep an eye o= n the EGT)=A0I will richen it up and keep the EGT's in the low =0A800'sC (1= 472F+).=0A=0AI have done a lot of LOP flying.=A0 In cruise it is difficult = to get the temps =0Amuch below about 890C (1634F)=A0without the engine runn= ing a little rough =0A(occasional misfire).=A0 Climbing LOP is actually bet= ter because the lower RPM's =0Areally help keep those EGT's down.=A0 Descen= ding is the opposite, the EGTs really =0Aclimb with the higher RPM.=A0 That= is how I lost turbo #2, a long high-power =0Adescent at essentially peak E= GT (about 920C (1688F)=A0or so) (Hey, I was late and =0Adidn't know any bet= ter - you guys can thank me for doing the testing :-)=0A=0AI have been on a= kick lately to keep my EGT's down so I have been running mostly =0AROP.=A0= At the last annual I was getting some leaking around the stock exhaust =0A= manifold.=A0 Turns out that the gasket had worn out and that the manifold i= tself =0Awas getting some of the typical cracks that those cast iron manifo= lds=A0are =0Aknown=A0to get.=A0 It looked to me as though at least part of = the problem was =0Aoxidation.=A0 I replaced the manifold with one I had sit= ting around, but they have =0Asuddenly become=A0harder to find.=A0 So my cu= rrent plan was to eliminate the oxygen =0Ain the exhaust and keep the temps= lower by running ROP.=0A=0AThe problem is, that ROP flying really uses up = a lot more fuel.=A0 Yesterday, =0Aflying home from Mammoth. I was hitting a= headwind and would have maybe=A0had to =0Astop for fuel if I didn't lean i= t out (ASOS on departure was reporting wiinds=A025 =0Agusting 38mph - tough= to get the plane loaded and untied in those winds).=A0 =0AAnyway, 9 gal/hr= LOP will get me about the same power and EGT=A0as 11 gal/hr ROP =0A(differ= ent MAP setting).=A0 Add more fuel and get lower EGT's but power starts =0A= dropping a little while the cost goes up fast.=A0 So, I have decided to go = back to =0Arunning LOP during cruse on my longer trips, especially if I fly= at lower MAP =0Asettings.=0A=0A-- =0ADavid Leonard=0A=0ATurbo Rotary RV-6 = N4VY=0Ahttp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0Ahttp://RotaryRoster.net=0A=0AOn Thu, = Mar 10, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A=0ADavid,= =0A>=A0=A0 Glad to hear from you..........Reminded me to ask you the same q= uestions =0A>about your=0A>turboed 13B as=A0I did John Slade..........=0A>= =A0=A0 Would like to know your typical EGT's and MP (boost)=A0at takeoff , = climb=A0and =0A>cruise=A0=0A>and if you lean "lean of peak" (or lean at all= )...........=0A>=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>"13B R= OTARY"_ Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A= >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A_________________________= _______=0AFrom: David Leonard =0A>To: Rotary motors in= aircraft =0A>Sent: Thu, March 10, 2011 12:26:= 56 PM=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Crankcase ventilation=0A>=0A>=0A>Interest= ing Idea, though you still probably want some other crankcase vent =0A>func= tional in case the injection ports don't suck enough.=A0 BTW, VERY little o= il, =0A>if any, comes out the vent unless there is something wrong with one= of the side =0A>seals.=A0 probably best to just plug the oil injection and= vent the crank case.=0A>=0A>-- =0A>David Leonard=0A>=0A>Turbo Rotary RV-6 = N4VY=0A>http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0A>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A>=0A>=0A>= On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 8:36 AM, Ernest Christley wrot= e:=0A>=0A>I've not provided for clean way to vent the crankcase, yet. =A0An= d I'm also not =0A>going to use the oil injection ports. =A0As I understand= it, the injection ports =0A>should always be at a negative pressure. =A0Wo= uld it be a crazy idea to have the =0A>ports pull the dirty air out of the = crankcase and not spread it across my =0A>airplane's belly?=0A>>=0A>>--=0A>= >Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/=0A>>Archive and UnSub: =A0 =0Ahttp:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A> --0-587413927-1299857327=:73396 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
David and All,
=0A
    = ;   I took the liberty of adding Fahrenheit numbers to your Celsi= us for the dinosaurs
=0A
like me in the group that do not think in= Metric numbers !!................<:)
=0A
 
=0A

Kel= ly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC= 2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Tur= bo

=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A=
=0AFrom: David= Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, March 11,= 2011 6:15:36 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Crankcase ventilation

=0A
Kelly,
= =0A
 
=0A
My single EGT probe is just down stream of the = turbo. I do my measurements in Celsius.  Peak is about 915C (1679F)&nb= sp;or so.  I usually climb out ROP and with the reduced RPMs, EGT are = in the mid 700'sC (1292F+) to low 800'sC (1472F+).  MP on take of= f is anywhere between 30 and 45" depending on my mood and who I am trying t= o impress - though I usually try to keep it under 40".  Even= then it is for only the first 1000' or so, then I usually mainta= in about 28-30" through most of climb, and cruse at 22-30" depending on my = mood. ROP cruse EGTs are 750C (1382F) to 900C (1652F) depend= ing on power, RPM and how rich I make things.  I usually lean it out&n= bsp;just enough to keep EGT's around 870C (1598F). (that is appx = 100C (212F) deg ROP).  If I am using a lot of boost or flying for= mation (when I cant keep an eye on the EGT) I will richen it up and ke= ep the EGT's in the low 800'sC (1472F+).
=0A
 
=0A
I have done a lo= t of LOP flying.  In cruise it is difficult to get the temps much belo= w about 890C (1634F) without the engine running a little rough (occasi= onal misfire).  Climbing LOP is actually better because the lower RPM'= s really help keep those EGT's down.  Descending is the opposite, the = EGTs really climb with the higher RPM.  That is how I lost turbo #2, a= long high-power descent at essentially peak EGT (about 920C (1688F) o= r so) (Hey, I was late and didn't know any better - you guys can thank me f= or doing the testing :-)
=0A
 
=0A
I have been on a = kick lately to keep my EGT's down so I have been running mostly ROP.  = At the last annual I was getting some leaking around the stock exhaust mani= fold.  Turns out that the gasket had worn out and that the manifold it= self was getting some of the typical cracks that those cast iron manifolds&= nbsp;are known to get.  It looked to me as though at least part o= f the problem was oxidation.  I replaced the manifold with one I had s= itting around, but they have suddenly become harder to find.  So = my current plan was to eliminate the oxygen in the exhaust and keep the tem= ps lower by running ROP.
=0A
 
=0A
The problem is, t= hat ROP flying really uses up a lot more fuel.  Yesterday, flying home= from Mammoth. I was hitting a headwind and would have maybe had to st= op for fuel if I didn't lean it out (ASOS on departure was reporting wiinds=  25 gusting 38mph - tough to get the plane loaded and untied in those = winds).  Anyway, 9 gal/hr LOP will get me about the same power and EGT=  as 11 gal/hr ROP (different MAP setting).  Add more fuel and get= lower EGT's but power starts dropping a little while the cost goes up fast= .  So, I have decided to go back to running LOP during cruse on my lon= ger trips, especially if I fly at lower MAP settings.

--
David L= eonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
htt= p://RotaryRoster.net
=0A
On Thu, Mar 10, 2= 011 at 11:05 AM, Kelly Troyer <k= eltro@att.net> wrote:
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
David,
=0A
   Gl= ad to hear from you..........Reminded me to ask you the same questions abou= t your
=0A
turboed 13B as I did John Slade..........
 = ;  Would like to know your typical EGT's and MP (boost) at takeof= f , climb and cruise 
=0A
and if you lean "lean of peak"= (or lean at all)...........
=0A
 
=0A

Kelly Troyer"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MI= STRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A
=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: David Leonard <= ;wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
Sent: Thu, Marc= h 10, 2011 12:26:56 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Crankcase ventilation
=0A
=0A
=0A

Interesting Idea, though you still probably want = some other crankcase vent functional in case the injection ports don't suck= enough.  BTW, VERY little oil, if any, comes out the vent unless ther= e is something wrong with one of the side seals.  probably best to jus= t plug the oil injection and vent the crank case.

--
David Leona= rd

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://Rotar= yRoster.net

=0A
On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at = 8:36 AM, Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net> wrote:
=0A
I've not provided for clean way to vent the cra= nkcase, yet.  And I'm also not going to use the oil injection ports. &= nbsp;As I understand it, the injection ports should always be at a negative= pressure.  Would it be a crazy idea to have the ports pull the dirty = air out of the crankcase and not spread it across my airplane's belly?
<= FONT color=3D#888888>
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary= /List.html






<= /DIV>
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