X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from aspensprings.uwyo.edu ([129.72.10.32] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2) with ESMTPS id 4902556 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 20:07:17 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=129.72.10.32; envelope-from=SBoese@uwyo.edu Received: from ponyexpress-ht1.uwyo.edu (ponyexpress-ht1.uwyo.edu [10.84.60.208]) by aspensprings.uwyo.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2B16did027774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 18:06:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from SBoese@uwyo.edu) Received: from ponyexpress-mb5.uwyo.edu ([fe80::9813:248c:2d68:a28b]) by ponyexpress-ht1 ([10.84.60.208]) with mapi; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 18:06:39 -0700 From: "Steven W. Boese" To: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 18:06:14 -0700 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: More staging and tuning Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: More staging and tuning Thread-Index: AcvfZ+PxqJuk50kmS7uY4yLoWr/csAAFWHLw Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E1AA3B1AF41D8049B1E3FBD5E22562600887397370ponyexpressmb_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_E1AA3B1AF41D8049B1E3FBD5E22562600887397370ponyexpressmb_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff, To avoid confusion, it should be pointed out that references to "first" or = "second" method are only valid within the context of an individual post. In the earlier long post, the "second" method is an alternative tuning meth= od where the effect of injector lag is removed from the table only at stagi= ng by using mode 6. Injector lag will still affect the rest of the table a= nd adjustments to it may be needed. This is not a solution to the problem = but rather a work around. In the more recent post, the "second" method refers to removing the effect = of injector lag from the entire table. This is not very easy with the cont= roller as it now exists. I have done this by adding extra circuitry. Trac= y may be able to do this with a firmware calculation. I am not suggesting that the controller cannot be tuned to work well. Ther= e are many cases where it is. What I am suggesting is that getting the con= troller to work well may be more difficult than it needs to be. There are = problems sometimes in the early tuning stages of a new installation. To tu= ne the controller effectively, the rest of the system needs to be working p= roperly. For the rest of the system to work properly, the controller needs= to be tuned reasonably well. Sort of a catch-22. The behavior of proble= ms in the system other than the controller can be affected by controller tu= ning, giving the impression that the controller is at fault when this is no= t really the case. The closer the controller is to working right out of th= e box, and the easier it is to tune, the easier it will be to isolate other= system problems if they are present. This makes it less likely that a cy= cle of frustration will develop. If your installation is working well, you may not gain much by arriving at = the essentially the same condition using a different method. If you find a= n alternate method to be easier to use, others may benefit from knowing abo= ut it. I know that I would appreciate any feedback you may give. Steve From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Jeff Whaley, Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:12 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: More staging and tuning Steve, I chose not to tune the EC2 that way (using either mode 6, or 2) for= that exact reason - I couldn't tell what the computer was doing. If the method works, I suppose one could argue who cares - I certainly don'= t know what the table looks like for my Ford Escape. I used Mode 3 to set injector flow rate (above staging) as per the manual, = then made manual adjustments to every data point using Mode 1 - the result = is my MCT table looks like a saw-tooth waveform, i.e., 2 non-linear rising = slopes either side of staging with an obvious correction just above staging= . I may try your method - I can always go back to what I have now - Ed's litt= le device makes it pretty easy to do MCT entries. Jeff --_000_E1AA3B1AF41D8049B1E3FBD5E22562600887397370ponyexpressmb_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jeff,

 

To avoid confusion, it should be pointed out that reference= s to “first” or “second” method are only valid with= in the context of an individual post.

 

In the earlier = long post, the “second” method is an alternative tuning method = where the effect of injector lag is removed from the table only at staging = by using mode 6.  Injector lag will still affect the rest of the table= and adjustments to it may be needed.  This is not a solution to the p= roblem but rather a work around.

=  

In the more recent p= ost, the “second” method refers to removing the effect of injec= tor lag from the entire table.  This is not very easy with the control= ler as it now exists.  I have done this by adding extra circuitry.&nbs= p; Tracy may be able to do this with a firmware calculation.

 

I am not suggesting that the controller cannot be tuned to work wel= l.  There are many cases where it is.  What I am suggesting is th= at getting the controller to work well may be more difficult than it needs = to be.  There are problems sometimes in the early tuning stages of a n= ew installation.  To tune the controller effectively, the rest of the = system needs to be working properly.  For the rest of the system to wo= rk properly, the controller needs to be tuned reasonably well.  Sort o= f a catch-22.   The behavior of problems in the system other than= the controller can be affected by controller tuning, giving the impression= that the controller is at fault when this is not really the case.  Th= e closer the controller is to working right out of the box, and the easier = it is to tune, the easier it will be to isolate other system problems if th= ey are present.   This makes it less likely that a cycle of frust= ration will develop.

&nb= sp;

If your installation is working= well, you may not gain much by arriving at the essentially the same condit= ion using a different method.  If you find an alternate method to be e= asier to use, others may benefit from knowing about it.  I know that I= would appreciate any feedback you may give.

 

Steve

    <= /span>

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley,
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:12 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: More staging and tuning

 

Steve, I chose not to tune the = EC2 that way (using either mode 6, or 2) for that exact reason -  I co= uldn’t tell what the computer was doing.

If the method works, I suppose = one could argue who cares – I certainly don’t know what the tab= le looks like for my Ford Escape.

I used Mode 3 to set injector flow rate (abo= ve staging) as per the manual, then made manual adjustments to every data p= oint using Mode 1 – the result is my MCT table looks like a saw-tooth= waveform, i.e., 2 non-linear rising slopes either side of staging with an = obvious correction just above staging.

I may try your method – I can alw= ays go back to what I have now – Ed’s little device makes it pr= etty easy to do MCT entries.

Jeff

= --_000_E1AA3B1AF41D8049B1E3FBD5E22562600887397370ponyexpressmb_--