Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #54088
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Knock sensor and indicator
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 10:11:49 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Chris, You are about to undertake a project of some magnitude,  regarding a knock sensor.
 
In concept the idea is quite simple, in execution it gets quite complex. 
 
1st if you do not tie it in to some automatic anti-knock method (such as automatically  reducing ignition advance, blowing the waste gate, etc) that reacts very quickly, your human response to the warning and time to take action - may be too late to avoid damage.  Most systems respond by reducing ignition advance (probably the fastest thing that can be done).
 
2nd Separating out the specific frequency (out of all the ongoing engine noise) that indicates a detonation can be done with a notch filter providing (important provision) you know that specific knock signal frequency and magnitude. That  generally takes electronic circuits and sometimes pretty advanced digital filters to separate out the signal from all the engine noise. 
 
If you are bound to pursue this - then the place to start is probably with the knock sensor system on the Rx7/8.  The "microphone" you screw into the block would probably be a good place to start, but the rest of the anit-knock system I would hesitate to take on.  Even then,  the sound spectrum from a rotary in an automobile installation and that in an aircraft may be considerably different - so the filter has to be "tuned" the the noise environment it will function in.
 
Now the old brain can be a pretty sophisticate noise filter and complex processing unit - I am told, but never tried, that hooking up a knock sensor microphone to a relatively simply audio frequency type amplifier - that with Practice, one can learn to distinguished the sound of a knock.  The problem with this approach is two fold as I see it - one, your engine has to go into detonation in order to train the ear/brain (the very thing you are trying to avoid) and two, you still have to be able to recognize it and react quickly enough to prevent damage. 
 
There are probably other steps more easily taken to reduce likely hood of detonation.  Like ensuring your static timing is accurately set, boost levels (if using turbo/super chargers) are kept very modest, Engine temperatures are kept within bounds, intercooler is used to cool intake air, etc). 
 
But, I certain wish you success and it would undoubtedly be an valuable addition to the rotary community (especially those flying with forced inductions systems) body of knowledge and tools.
 
Good Luck
 
Ed

Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 9:43 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Knock sensor and indicator

Since I have had an issue with detonation, I am contemplating adding a knock sensor.  What do y'all know about this addition.  I do not believe Tracy's EM has a provision for a reading, so, what might be a good route to take.  The brief research I have done shows different frequencies, types etc.   What would be correct for a rotary, both as to a sensor and something to notify me in the cabin?  Thanks.  I am about to replace ALL my apex seals and soft parts and hopefully finally lick this issue....hopefully....did I mention hopefully...determinably...persistent? (heck, I wasn't planning anything else this weekend <g>)

 

Chris

Subscribe (FEED) Subscribe (DIGEST) Subscribe (INDEX) Unsubscribe Mail to Listmaster