X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [66.219.56.245] (HELO mail.qnsi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4647462 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:00:11 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.245; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Water temps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CB9FE1.C05C094A" Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 18:59:39 -0600 Message-ID: <74120FDE88CAFE4DBDA8814BCE20A3F3283597@qnsi-mail.qnsi.net> Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Water temps thread-index: Acuf3iFU0n/qwSr1RbmlH8aoAN/MzwAAGLmA References: From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB9FE1.C05C094A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes. All coolant flows through the exchanger. I have added a half size (tech welding) oil to air cooler in series with the Lamanova. I estimate I'm cooling about 250-255 HP on take off and initial climb. That's at 40" MP and includes the HP required to drive the super charger. I also have 800 cubic inches of water radiator. I think a normally aspirated two rotor would be fine with 650 cubic inches of radiator and the large Lamanova. I have not flown enough with the new oil to air cooler to collect any data. However I can report the Lamanova performs better with the hottest oil and coolest water. I tested the oil to air cooler plumbed in series before the Lamanova with poor results. I also tested the two exchangers in parallel. But my duct was really poor and I did not have a good way to regulate flow between the two coolers. I may try this arrangement again with my new duct. I'm still working on fiberglass but hope to be back in the air in January. =20 Bobby ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 6:33 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Water temps Bobby, Then your ECD54-32 is plumbed in series between radiator and engine rather than paralleled with partial coolant flow ??=20 =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo ________________________________ From: Bobby J. Hughes To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 6:22:29 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Water temps Kelly, =20 My guess is the A43-300 will provide about 30-35 F Delta T. My ECD54-329 (the largest unit) provides a maximum 43F oil temp drop. This is plumbed after the radiator using the coolest water. It did not do as well using warm water out of the engine.=20 =20 Bobby =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 3:13 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Water temps Chrissi, I did not see an answer to your question about "Mocal" water to oil coolers...............It has been=20 reported previously that some have used the "Mocal" model A43-330 cooler with success........ Some have had custom units built by Ed Klepis at "Tech -Weld" or other suppliers........... I have=20 had a 330 for some time but alas I am still grounded !!.............<:).........See PDF below..........=20 =20 =20 http://97.74.103.94/files/laminova.pdf =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 =09 ________________________________ From: "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" To: keltro@att.net Sent: Mon, December 13, 2010 12:52:06 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Water temps This is where I get confused: =20 said previously,=20 -ideal water temp =3D 160*~180*F -ideal oil temp =3D 160*F =20 If we are cooling oil with water that is at best hotter than the ideal temp of the oil, then are we not adding heat to it rather than removing it?=20 =20 If we are trying to cool oil, why would we feed the highest temp water to the oil/water cooler rather than the coolest temp water by tapping into the pump housing where it enters the block? =20 Based on feedback, the water entering the block may be as low as 150*~160*F, would this be cool enough to do an adequate job of cooling the oil? =20 Also, which model of Mocal is being used? =20 ...Chrissi ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB9FE1.C05C094A Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes. All coolant flows through the exchanger. I = have added a=20 half size (tech welding) oil to air cooler in series with the Lamanova. = I=20 estimate I'm cooling about 250-255 HP on take off and initial climb.=20 That's at 40" MP and includes the  HP required to drive = the super=20 charger. I also have 800 cubic inches of water radiator. I think a = normally=20 aspirated two rotor would be fine with 650 cubic inches of radiator and = the=20 large Lamanova. I have not flown enough with the new oil to air cooler = to=20 collect any data. However I can report the Lamanova performs better with = the=20 hottest oil and coolest water. I tested the oil to air cooler plumbed in = series=20 before the Lamanova with poor results. I also tested the two exchangers = in=20 parallel. But my duct was really poor and I did not have a good way to = regulate=20 flow between the two coolers. I may try this arrangement again with my = new duct.=20 I'm still working on fiberglass but hope to be back in the air in=20 January.
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly=20 Troyer
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 6:33 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Water=20 temps

Bobby,
Then your ECD54-32 is plumbed in series between radiator and = engine=20 rather than paralleled
with partial coolant flow ?? 
 

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo



From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 <bhughes@qnsi.net>
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 = 6:22:29=20 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Fw:=20 Water temps

Kelly,
 
My guess is the A43-300 will provide about 30-35 F = Delta=20 T.  My ECD54-329 (the largest unit) provides a maximum = 43F oil=20 temp drop. This is plumbed after the radiator using the coolest water. = It did=20 not do as well using warm water out of the = engine. 
 
Bobby
 
 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly=20 Troyer
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 3:13 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Water=20 temps

Chrissi,
    I did not see an answer to your question = about=20 "Mocal" water to oil coolers...............It has been
reported previously that some have used the "Mocal" model A43-330 = cooler=20 with success........
   Some have had custom units built by Ed Klepis at  = "Tech=20 -Weld" or other suppliers........... I have
had a 330 for some time but alas I am still grounded=20 !!.............<:).........See PDF below.......... 
 
 
http://97.74.103.94/files/laminova.pdf
 

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo



 

 

From: "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" <CozyGirrrl@aol.com>
To: keltro@att.net
Sent: Mon, = December 13,=20 2010=20 12:52:06=20 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] = Re: Fw:=20 Water temps

This is = where I=20 get confused:

 

said = previously,=20

-ideal = water temp=20 =3D 160*~180*F

-ideal = oil temp =3D=20 160*F

 

If we = are cooling=20 oil with water that is at best hotter than the ideal temp of the = oil, then=20 are we not adding heat to it rather than removing it?=20

 

If we = are trying=20 to cool oil, why would we feed the highest temp water to the = oil/water=20 cooler rather than the coolest temp water by tapping into the pump = housing=20 where it enters the block?

 

Based on = feedback,=20 the water entering the block may be as low as 150*~160*F, would this = be cool=20 enough to do an adequate job of cooling the = oil?

 

Also, = which model=20 of Mocal is being used?

 

...Chrissi


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