X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4643202 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:43:20 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.164; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id oBG3gj4M027405 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:42:45 -0500 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.f8f.813e5f3 (55716) for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:42:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.154]) by cia-md01.mx.aol.com (v129.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD017-5c3c4d098aa73b2; Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:42:35 -0500 Received: from webmail-m084 (webmail-m084.sim.aol.com [64.12.108.102]) by smtprly-db03.mx.aol.com (v129.5) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDB032-5c3c4d098aa73b2; Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:42:31 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Engine Considerations Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:42:31 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 69.84.254.253 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD6AEA67202480_4DC_12BE0_webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 32992-STANDARD Received: from 69.84.254.253 by webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com (64.12.108.102) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:42:31 -0500 Message-Id: <8CD6AEA67169D7C-4DC-75F7@webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CD6AEA67202480_4DC_12BE0_webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've got a '93 13BREW, it's normally aspirated. If I had to do it again,= I'd have a p ported 13b engine since it gets better horsepower than a sid= e ported engine and has a simpler and lighter intake manifold. I don't kno= w that I'd use a turbo, since with the P port you'd have plenty of power,= less weight, less complexity and points of failure. Also, either side po= rt exhausts (Cooler, quieter exhaust) or exhaust splitters are better than= peripheral exhaust ports with without the splitters. The splitters quiet= the exhaust a bit and presumably take out some of the exhaust energy with= out anyone noticing a lack of power over un-split exhausts. The exhausts= are really hot regardless, so take that into account when you plan your= engine mount and all other accessories so that you can provide plenty of= space around them for heat shielding . Make sure you do the heat pellet= mode on the e-shaft and put in jets for the oil sprayers on the e-shaft= lobes. A crank angle sensor mounted on the main pulley like the 93 and la= ter engine is nice. Those are my preferences. Yours may differ.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: George Rippeto To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 5:57 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Engine Considerations Dave, =20 Thanks for your response. Let me start over. I realize the rotary installa= tion is not a "Plug and Play" solution. I like the idea of putting an engi= ne in my plane that was built less than 50 years ago and has a lot more co= nfiguration options (if not more complicated).I have the Bruce Turrentine'= s video and I also have Tracy Crook's book on rotary conversion. I have be= en on this email group for over 3 years but only as a reader, not a contri= butor.=20 =20 I just want a bit of guidance on getting started. The engine will be going= in a Cozy Mark IV. I plan on getting the engine mount and various other= parts from CG Products. I'll be getting Tracy's RD-1B redrive. EC-2 contr= oller and EM-2 monitor. I haven't decided on the turbo or prop yet but fee= l I don't have to decide on that right now. =20 Thanks in advance for guiding me to the starting road sign to what will be= a long journey. =20 George, St Louis, MO=20 --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Dave wrote: From: Dave Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Engine Considerations To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 3:17 PM Welcome to the list... this is the first post I can find from you..=20 I have no idea what sort of background research you have done to this poin= t, but I am pretty sure there is not a suitable ready-made package with a= turbo, intake, block that can be ordered.=20 The stock turbo's are completely unsuitable for our use, and will fail in= short order. There are a couple turbo installs flying.. Dave Leonard's RV= in San Diego, and John Slade's Cozy up in New England, but they both are= custom installs. Chris Barber in Houston has a Turbo 13b on a velocity,= and is approaching first flight. I was involved in his build for a few ye= ars, and we purchased an intake from Mistral when that was an option. Most= car turbos are meant for off-the-line sprint style behavior, not the hour= s long endurance behavior of boosted flight operations The stock intake on the 13B rides way too high for any canard I am aware= of, so you will need a custom intake fabricated, as well as a custom exha= ust. Both the Cozy and Velocity will require such.=20 If you are serious about the rotary, understand that the few sentences bel= ow tell me that you've not done much homework and may think this is a plug= and play type installation. Its not. There will be significant fabricatio= n work on your end to make this happen.=20 So lets talk about what sort of aircraft this is going into, what you plan= to use for a PSRU, what you plan to use for an engine controller, what so= rt of prop you are planning to use, and what your plans are for mounting= your radiator and oil coolers? How do you plan to mount the engine? And to answer your question.. A street port on a new turbo block would be= a good start. Eccentric shaft oil jet and thermal pellet mods are also re= commended. Bruce Turrentine's video has info on the oil and pellet mods.= =20 Dave On 12/15/2010 2:46 PM, George Rippeto wrote:=20 I am at the point in my project were I would like to order my engine. This= is a canard installation. I would like a turbo charged 13B. What informat= ion do I need to provide to the engine supplier? Is there some kind of che= cklist or something I can use to help me? =20 Thanks, =20 George=20 ----------MB_8CD6AEA67202480_4DC_12BE0_webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I've got a '93 13BREW, it's normally aspirated. If I had to do it aga= in, I'd have a p ported 13b engine since it gets better horsepower than a= side ported engine and has a simpler and lighter intake manifold.&nb= sp;I don't know that I'd use a turbo, since with the P port you'd have ple= nty of power, less weight, less complexity and points of failure.  Al= so, either side port exhausts (Cooler, quieter exhaust) or exhaust sp= litters are better than peripheral  exhaust ports with without the sp= litters. The splitters quiet the exhaust a bit and presumably take out som= e of the exhaust energy without anyone noticing a lack of power over un-sp= lit exhausts. The exhausts are really hot regardless, so take that into ac= count when you plan your engine mount and all other accessories so that yo= u can provide plenty of space around them for heat shielding . Make sure= you do the heat pellet mode on the e-shaft and put in jets for the oil sp= rayers on the e-shaft lobes. A crank angle sensor mounted on the main pull= ey like the 93 and later engine is nice. Those are my preferences. Yours= may differ.
Brian Trubee


-----Original Message-----
From: George Rippeto <grippeto@yahoo.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 5:57 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Engine Considerations

Dave,
 
Thanks for your response. Let me start over. I realize the rotary ins= tallation is not a "Plug and Play" solution. I like the idea of putting an= engine in my plane that was built less than 50 years ago and has a lot mo= re configuration options (if not more complicated).I have the Bruce Turren= tine's video and I also have Tracy Crook's book on rotary conversion. I ha= ve been on this email group for over 3 years but only as a reader, not a= contributor.
 
I just want a bit of guidance on getting started. The engine will be= going in a Cozy Mark IV. I plan on getting the engine mount and various= other parts from CG Products. I'll be getting Tracy's RD-1B redrive. EC-2= controller and EM-2 monitor. I haven't decided on the turbo or prop yet= but feel I don't have to decide on that right now.
 
Thanks in advance for guiding me to the starting road sign to what will be= a long journey.
 
George,
St Louis, MO 
--- On Wed, 12/15/10, Dave <david.staten@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dave <david.staten@gmai= l.com>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Engine Considerations
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 3:17 PM

Welcome to the list... this is the first post I can= find from you..

I have no idea what sort of background research you have done to this poin= t, but I am pretty sure there is not a suitable ready-made package with a= turbo, intake, block that can be ordered.

The stock turbo's are completely unsuitable for our use, and will fail in= short order. There are a couple turbo installs flying.. Dave Leonard's RV= in San Diego, and John Slade's Cozy up in New England, but they both are= custom installs. Chris Barber in Houston has a Turbo 13b on a velocity,= and is approaching first flight. I was involved in his build for a few ye= ars, and we purchased an intake from Mistral when that was an option. Most= car turbos are meant for off-the-line sprint style behavior, not the hour= s long endurance behavior of boosted flight operations

The stock intake on the 13B rides way too high for any canard I am aware= of, so you will need a custom intake fabricated, as well as a custom exha= ust. Both the Cozy and Velocity will require such.

If you are serious about the rotary, understand that the few sentences bel= ow tell me that you've not done much homework and may think this is a plug= and play type installation. Its not. There will be significant fabricatio= n work on your end to make this happen.

So lets talk about what sort of aircraft this is going into, what you plan= to use for a PSRU, what you plan to use for an engine controller, what so= rt of prop you are planning to use, and what your plans are for mounting= your radiator and oil coolers? How do you plan to mount the engine?

And to answer your question.. A street port on a new turbo block would be= a good start. Eccentric shaft oil jet and thermal pellet mods are also re= commended. Bruce Turrentine's video has info on the oil and pellet mods.=

Dave

On 12/15/2010 2:46 PM, George Rippeto wrote:=20
I am at the point in my project were I would like to order my engine.= This is a canard installation. I would like a turbo charged 13B. What inf= ormation do I need to provide to the engine supplier? Is there some= kind of checklist or something I can use to help me?
 
Thanks,
 
George 



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