X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm27.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with SMTP id 4639980 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:23:32 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.97; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.91.61] by nm27.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2010 22:22:57 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.47] by tm1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2010 22:22:57 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1047.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2010 22:22:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 88188.41566.bm@omp1047.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 23845 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Dec 2010 22:22:57 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1292278976; bh=FKB36+A1+ygepf+YRNMRFctQT9v2I8t4ED1QmV6Iyi0=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=W79OuWPHz18NVpv4QJAltJyR1WsFFEmz2xtZ+SKZoLPn4AujIfr5WR0ZKOcg+r9Ue5sz8anPKlW2jxQ0UygNI5uEqWS8bXXhTzaKKvHNdV7CTUDFKMlpQAI+FkyWgoP6JKx6kxflyYEh8upfC+YbV0CnejKg1Mv0xFiRujUbPI8= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=N1/kVWjn1huva4c0pTf/vveIIJ9nUiIETzErH4pPCMjpn2Z35vE4+dpyiIFTjSIGaLIATakPVE7fv/AAz02ZgROYeE9UakClM99mkECXv6BepV7bz4ltU6H6e0V2/ynXrkdkF6qKhedQ6kJBcW0ZnY7L+zPAnsLboCAVw+Hec6I=; Message-ID: <956514.22598.qm@web83904.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: WQAsNmUVM1kbtxAkLoqYVJ4q66Kyt5VC0A9K2Gtm7C0cDpW 8y5ddtiAZFcXt.RC1HMHtDf58Nowc4szLEpTMYOhEfzIEF3uZXipHA.0EaF8 kXdQi_OBlywWGANfPvXGi8yisBpoaYIN6808h0nwetwYreNOcnlfuYds9N49 RQrZXTuMoLsk2xegfmQ_w8WBWhDzlPk7bzT9GKf61j9b6iW0.jUwl7ugQsbZ piMo1RGIoTsfHDKynI9eayOdqRizxZb0E_z6dxP4Sf61sQ_SViOdiCnEI80i 8uEysMI_dFA-- Received: from [208.114.32.20] by web83904.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:22:56 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:22:56 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Fw: Water temps To: Rotary motors in aircraft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-446279163-1292278976=:22598" --0-446279163-1292278976=:22598 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" =0ATo: keltro@att.net=0ASent: Mon, December 13, 2010 4:05:31= PM=0ASubject: Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Water temps=0A=0AThanks Tracy fo= r the adjustment in my thinking. I don't want to target temps =0Aunrealisti= cally. =0A=0AWhere does that leave us with our pick up and return points fo= r the oil/water =0Acooling system? If the oil were being cooled with water = only and we wanted the =0Abest possible chance at that, wouldn't we want to= feed it the cooler water from =0Athe high pressure side of the pump prior = to entering the block?=0A=0AWhatever space we would use for an oil/air cool= er takes away from potential =0Acoolant radiator space. Putting the two sid= e by side becomes less efficient =0Aspacewise for both due to losses for st= ructure etc. If it is not possible to =0Acool the oil adequately with water= alone then we'll need to back up a little and =0Amake other layout plans. = I remember Richter's Cozy III with three P-51 scoops, =0Ait got the job don= e but was like dragging a parachute in drag.=0A=0AKelly, to your comment be= low, while I am sure we'd have no problem putting =0Aadequate heat into the= oil, I am very concerned about keeping any more than just =0Aenough out of= it. Much easier going one way then the other =3D)=0A...Chrissi=0A=0AIn a m= essage dated 12/13/2010 2:49:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, keltro@att.net = =0Awrites:=0AChrissi,=0A>=A0=A0=A0 My own opinion is that after warm up and= in flight the oil temp leaving the =0A>engine before the =0A>=0A>coolers (= air or water=A0 to oil) will almost always be well above =0A>160-180=A0F...= ...........If it is not this=0A>high then the=A0oil to water cooler will ac= tually help warm it to a more efficient =0A>temp.........IMHO=0A>=0A>=A0=A0= Somebody correct me if this is a fallacy !!.......................<:)=0A>= =0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine= =0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>"TURBONETICS"= _TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A________________________________=0AFrom= : "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" =0A>To: keltro@att.net=0A>Sent: = Mon, December 13, 2010 12:52:06 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: = Water temps=0A>=0A>This is where I get confused:=0A>=0A>said previously, = =0A>-ideal water temp =3D 160*~180*F=0A>-ideal oil temp =3D 160*F=0A>=0A>If= we are cooling oil with water that is at best hotter than the ideal temp o= f =0A>the oil, then are we not adding heat to it rather than removing it? = =0A>=0A>=0A>If we are trying to cool oil, why would we feed the highest tem= p water to the =0A>oil/water cooler rather than the coolest temp water by t= apping into the pump =0A>housing where it enters the block?=0A>=0A>Based on= feedback, the water entering the block may be as low as 150*~160*F, =0A>wo= uld this be cool enough to do an adequate job of cooling the oil?=0A>=0A>Al= so, which model of Mocal is being used?=0A>=0A>...Chrissi --0-446279163-1292278976=:22598 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A

=0A

=0A
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" <CozyGirrrl@aol.com>
To: keltro@att.net
Sent: Mon, December 13, 2010 4:05:31 P= M
Subject: Re: Fw: [FlyR= otary] Re: Fw: Water temps

=0A
Thanks Tracy for the adjustment in my = thinking. I don't want to target temps unrealistically.
=0A
Where= does that leave us with our pick up and return points for the oil/water co= oling system? If the oil were being cooled with water only and we wanted th= e best possible chance at that, wouldn't we want to feed it the cooler wate= r from the high pressure side of the pump prior to entering the block?=0A
 
=0A
Whatever space we would use for an oil/air coo= ler takes away from potential coolant radiator space. Putting the two side = by side becomes less efficient spacewise for both due to losses for structu= re etc. If it is not possible to cool the oil adequately with water alone t= hen we'll need to back up a little and make other layout plans. I remember = Richter's Cozy III with three P-51 scoops, it got the job done but was like= dragging a parachute in drag.
=0A
 
=0A
Kelly, to y= our comment below, while I am sure we'd have no problem putting adequate he= at into the oil, I am very concerned about keeping any more than just enoug= h out of it. Much easier going one way then the other =3D)
=0A
...= Chrissi
=0A
 
=0A
=0A
In a message dated 12/13/2= 010 2:49:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, keltro@att.net writes:
=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
Chrissi,
=0A
  = ;  My own opinion is that after warm up and in flight the oil temp lea= ving the engine before the
=0A
coolers (air or water  to oil= ) will almost always be well above 160-180 F..............If it is not= this
=0A
high then the oil to water cooler will actually hel= p warm it to a more efficient temp.........IMHO
=0A
 
= =0A
   Somebody correct me if this is a fallacy !!...........= ............<:)
=0A
 
=0A

Kelly Troyer
<= FONT size=3D4>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Bac= kplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" <Co= zyGirrrl@aol.com>
To:= keltro@att.net
Sent: Mo= n, December 13, 2010 12:52:06 PM
Su= bject: Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Water temps

=0A
This is where I get confus= ed:
=0A
 
=0A
said previously,
=0A
-ideal = water temp =3D 160*~180*F
=0A
-ideal oil temp =3D 160*F
=0A 
=0A
If we are cooling oil with water that is at best hot= ter than the ideal temp of the oil, then are we not adding heat to it rathe= r than removing it?
=0A
 
=0A
If we are trying to c= ool oil, why would we feed the highest temp water to the oil/water cooler r= ather than the coolest temp water by tapping into the pump housing where it= enters the block?
=0A
 
=0A
Based on feedback, the = water entering the block may be as low as 150*~160*F, would this be cool en= ough to do an adequate job of cooling the oil?
=0A
 
=0A=
Also, which model of Mocal is being used?
=0A
 
=0A=
...Chrissi
--0-446279163-1292278976=:22598--