X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao103.cox.net ([68.230.241.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4486259 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:42:30 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.43; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100929174154.VDMS23084.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:41:54 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.199.216.236]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id Chhs1f00n56cS2o04hhsqc; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:41:52 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=RFAs0e+2sU49DU7hBECFSPlG3t5ZI1He37/O2GpqT7s= c=1 sm=1 a=61ju2Vd_9Q4A:10 a=lN8H/RjlhkCyIsyuOn2r7w==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=vf6_nKQbL41vUJEZUt4A:9 a=26gDSfAUQNxmP46lGakA:7 a=tqENcnpLxdKOJhKtS9SmawPVHKQA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=si9q_4b84H0A:10 a=Chd8jddPNL83PgvB:21 a=Gn2xpYwYe_T9xFpM:21 a=PwHo3VwvUe8nbVIka-sA:9 a=R4riGyX-QcNdxeLw3E4A:7 a=fwlJMgUae2QbyA__5wlMgt6QFYwA:4 a=_Yhmptjyygz6VyxC:21 a=s_B9N90L8zkBLnjy:21 a=lN8H/RjlhkCyIsyuOn2r7w==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Auto tune/oxygen sensor Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:42:24 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01CB5FC3.01144C40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6863 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: Actf9t6EbBJlY291QoW/HPQDMqZI7QADwUqg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01CB5FC3.01144C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill; =20 The EC is not a closed loop system - does not use the O2 sensor output - unless something has changed recently. =20 Al =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:53 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Auto tune/oxygen sensor =20 Bosch 11027 is the O2 sensor that Tracy recommends in the instructions. = I think the controller uses that input to maintain the mixture where you = set it. I don't think it is only used for setting the map table. YMMV =20 Bill B =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:07 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Auto tune/oxygen sensor =20 =20 I have the BOSCH sensor 11027 and it works fine. That's what I have also; and I think mine has something close to 150 hrs = and still going fine. I seldom burn avgas, so that helps. I think one needs the O2 sensor for auto tune. Yes, it does. As I understand it; with the knobs centered the EM tunes = to mid-range on the O2 sensor; roughly stoichometric. =20 Al =20 =20 Rino ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Auto tune/oxygen sensor =20 Bill, if it's a one wire sensor, then just about any of the "universal" = 1 wire O2 sensors you find in your auto store will work.=20 =20 If multiwire (I.e. has a heater element and a separate sensor ground = wire), then you need to get one with the same number of wires. If you get the = same make O2 sensor, then the wires should be the same color. =20 Bosch has a wire chart which tells you which color wire is which - = this may help. I always get a Bosch unit - they might cost a few bucks more, = but they are generally good quality, available anywhere and you can find the wire color code. Here's the wiring color code for the "Universal" Bosch unit. =20 Cable colour allocations for the Universal Oxygen Sensor are as follows, sensor output signal wire =3D black, sensor heater element cables =3D White ( Note - heater is not polarity sensitive ) Sensor signal ground ( where used ) =3D Grey Important: The cable allocations must be assigned correctly. Otherwise the Sensor could be destroyed =20 Don't let them sell you a wide band O2 sensor which a novice parts guy = might try to do because they all have 5 -6 wires and might get confused with a Narrow band O2 sensor with a heater. =20 Ed =20 From: Bill Schertz=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:10 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Auto tune/oxygen sensor =20 Was going to do some auto tune in the air yesterday, to get to some = regions of the performance map that can't be reached on the ground. =20 Took off and the O2 sensor indication completely disappeared from the = EM-2 display. Did one circuit of the airport and landed. =20 Discovered that the O2 sensor had failed (physically -- the top fell off = and separated from the body). This caused me to raise the following = questions. =20 1. I believe that the oxygen sensor readout is only that, not used by = the EC-2 for control purposes.=20 2. When in auto tune, is the EM-2 looking at the sensor for indications = of which way to adjust the mixture? If not, what is the feedback mechanism? =20 I went to the Auto parts store for a replacement, and ran into the = problem that there are 100's of different oxygen sensors, and they need to know = what car it came from. Anyone have the specs on what this sensor is?=20 =20 =20 Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01CB5FC3.01144C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bill;

 

The EC is not a closed loop = system – does not use the O2 sensor output – unless something has changed recently.

 

Al

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Wednesday, = September 29, 2010 8:53 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Auto tune/oxygen sensor

 

Bosch 11027 is = the O2 sensor that Tracy recommends in the instructions.  I think the = controller uses that input to maintain the mixture where you set it.  I = don’t think it is only used for setting the map table.  = YMMV

 

Bill = B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Wednesday, = September 29, 2010 12:07 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Auto tune/oxygen sensor

 

 

I have the BOSCH sensor = 11027 and it works fine.

That’s what I have also; and I think mine has something close to 150 hrs and = still going fine.  I seldom burn avgas, so that helps.

I think one needs the O2 = sensor for auto tune.

Yes, it does.  As I understand it; with the knobs centered the EM tunes = to mid-range on the O2 sensor; roughly stoichometric.

 

Al

 

 

Rino

=

----- Original Message = -----

From: Ed Anderson

Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:05 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Auto tune/oxygen sensor

 

Bill, if it’s a one = wire sensor, then just about any of the "universal" 1 wire O2 = sensors you find in your auto store will work. 

 

 If multiwire (I.e. = has a heater element and a separate sensor ground wire), then you need to get = one with the same number of wires.  If you get the same make O2 sensor, = then the wires should be the same color.

 

  Bosch has a wire = chart which tells you which color wire is which  - this may help.  I = always get a Bosch unit - they might cost a few bucks more, but they are generally = good quality, available anywhere and you can find the wire color code.  = Here's the wiring color code for the "Universal" Bosch = unit.

 

Cable = colour allocations for the Universal Oxygen Sensor are as = follows,

sensor = output signal wire =3D black, sensor = heater element cables =3D

White ( = Note - heater is not polarity sensitive ) Sensor signal = ground

( where = used ) =3D Grey

Importan= t: The cable allocations must be assigned correctly. = Otherwise

the = Sensor could be destroyed

 

Don't let them sell you a = wide band O2 sensor which a novice parts guy might try to do because they all have = 5 -6 wires and might get confused with a Narrow band O2 sensor with a = heater.

 

Ed

 

From: Bill Schertz

Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:10 = AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Auto = tune/oxygen sensor

 

Was going to do some auto = tune in the air yesterday, to get to some regions of the performance map that = can't be reached on the ground.

 

Took off and the O2 sensor indication completely disappeared from the EM-2 display. Did one circuit = of the airport and landed.

 

Discovered that the O2 = sensor had failed (physically -- the top fell off and separated from the body). = This caused me to raise the following questions.

 

1. I believe that the = oxygen sensor readout is only that, not used by the EC-2 for control purposes. =

2. When in auto tune, is = the EM-2 looking at the sensor for indications of which way to adjust the = mixture? If not, what is the feedback mechanism?

 

I went to the Auto parts = store for a replacement, and ran into the problem that there are 100's of different = oxygen sensors, and they need to know what car it came from. Anyone have the specs on = what this sensor is?

 

 

Bill = Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing

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