X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-gy0-f180.google.com ([209.85.160.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with ESMTP id 4216654 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 06:49:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.180; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by gyb13 with SMTP id 13so2050110gyb.25 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:48:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:received:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=bDVEjzrazsmdfVkNx+f++El94z8P54YJ9YDNQDFCv/g=; b=GzZDiSyxO7z4ifyUlfkvUQv/X+OXiKr2ad5xF33pRhJrD8rt3i2gghbbhowL4tjy2H NQZN1qEaeRyu3Uu2Nkm/bUbYIF8BuoPbZADWKzguhhraz97pPr7ptEIGl1k7naWMh1xU lzCCaNOQgFWX0RQuqFlpxNqoX654Uln0gprQ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=F9GktHtElaCjTpx7HwTVMB6P/tV7gkN6GNcLFpDsnBVGz5a66riqgKUSH57EhskuPM TkifTHkuwyxUWKSBmQU/ZYb1NDf2ywEGykBH+F9GqeCalHFnA4ripZgpPQHQ6abeUSSi /Me2UEcyRwDVYxLOfZyhe4HSgfYh1BbmIWBew= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.183.195 with HTTP; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:48:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 05:48:29 -0500 Received: by 10.90.242.11 with SMTP id p11mr572159agh.75.1270896509779; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Tuned lengths From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636283d68030d300483dfa7f1 --001636283d68030d300483dfa7f1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy, Anyone with a table saw, drill press, and a TIG can build a slide throttle. Of course, it will probably turn out better if you use a Bridgeport mill, but if you're careful, it can be built at home by the normal builder. Afte= r building a 6-runner side-port manifold, building the slide-throttle intake was a piece of cake. Is it necessary? I don't know because I never tried running it with a regular throttle body. But if a regular throttle body would work for our purposes, the intake could be even simpler. PL sells slide-throttle kits for the 2-rotor. How much simpler could it be than that? I just pleased with how my intat all fits together as a system. Mark On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Tracy Crook wrote= : > "*One nice thing about the p-port motor is that the intake is super simpl= e > make. Of course, you've got to build a slide throttle. ;-) " > * > Just curious Mark, are you just kidding or do you really think the slide > throttle is a necessity? When and if I ever build a P-Port engine I'll > use a standard throttle body. I don't see a significant advantage to the > slide throttle. It's still too far away from the inner port entrance to h= elp > the idle. With a conservative port timing the idle is OK for aircraft us= e > anyway. Richard's P Port idled OK using a carburetor and it was a one > rotor which has a even harder time at idle. > > Tracy > > > On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> One nice thing about the p-port motor is that the intake is super simple >> make. Of course, you've got to build a slide throttle. ;-) >> >> Mark >> >> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Al Gietzen wrote: >> >>> My understanding is that one advantage to using individual throttles a= s >>> you did was that it mitigated the effect of pulses between the intakes = and >>> tuning became less critical. >>> >>> Where did you get the tubes to weld-up? I=92m planning on making a cas= ting >>> myself but it would nice to know alternate sources. >>> >>> Bill; >>> >>> I don=92t recall where I got the tube =96 there are a number of vendors= . I >>> think I bought U-bends which were then cut and welded. The tube size wa= s >>> chosen to have a circumference close to match that of the ports. The >>> fabricator then made mandrels to shape the tubes to match the ports =96= then >>> welded into the water-jet cut flange. >>> >>> >>> >>> Al >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = *On >>> Behalf Of *Al Gietzen >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:06 PM >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Tuned lengths >>> >>> >>> >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Tuned lengths >>> >>> >>> >>> *Please post drawings/photos/specs...Yvon* >>> >>> >>> >>> Some photos of the intake manifold for the 20B are attached. It is 4.5= =94 >>> from flange to flange; the TB flange is at a slight angle to fit my >>> installation; the TB is TWM 3003; 44mm diameter bores. >>> >>> >>> >>> Another builder built his from my drawings and had a couple extra made. >>> At least one is still available. The price is around $1000; I=92ll have= to >>> check. That=92s a real deal =96 by the time I had mine fabricated and h= eat >>> treated it was over $2000. Let me know if anyone is interested. >>> >>> >>> >>> Al >>> >>> >> > --001636283d68030d300483dfa7f1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy,=A0

Anyone with a table saw, drill press, and a TI= G can build a slide throttle. =A0Of course, it will probably turn out bette= r if you use a Bridgeport mill, but if you're careful, it can be built = at home by the normal builder. =A0After building a 6-runner side-port manif= old, building the slide-throttle intake was a piece of cake.

Is it necessary? =A0I don't know because I never tr= ied running it with a regular throttle body. =A0But if a regular throttle b= ody would work for our purposes, the intake could be even simpler. =A0PL se= lls slide-throttle kits for the 2-rotor. =A0How much simpler could it be th= an that?=A0

I just pleased with how my intat all fits together as a= system.=A0

Mark=A0
=A0

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Tracy Crook <trac= y@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:
"One nice thing about the p-port mot= or is that the intake is super simple make. =A0Of course, you've got to build a slide throttle. =A0;-) "= ;

Just curious Mark, are you just kidding or do you really think= the slide throttle is a necessity? =A0=A0 When and if I ever build a P-Por= t engine I'll use a standard throttle body.=A0 I don't see a signif= icant advantage to the slide throttle. It's still too far away from the= inner port entrance to help the idle.=A0 With a conservative port timing t= he idle is OK for aircraft use anyway.=A0 Richard's=A0 P Port idled OK = using a carburetor and it was a one rotor which has a even harder time at i= dle.

Tracy


On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 8:3= 1 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill,=A0

One nice thing about the p-port motor is that t= he intake is super simple make. =A0Of course, you've got to build a sli= de throttle. =A0;-)=A0

Mark

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>= wrote:

My understanding is that one advantage to using individual throttles as you di= d was that it mitigated the effect of pulses between the intakes and tuning became less critical.

Where did you get the tubes to weld-up?=A0 I=92m planning on making a casting myself but it would nice to know alternate sources.

Bill;

I don=92t recall= where I got the tube =96 there are a number of vendors.=A0 I think I bought U-bends which were then cut and welded. The tube size was chosen to have a circumfe= rence close to match that of the ports.=A0 The fabricator then made mandrels to shape the tubes to match the ports =96 then welded into the water-jet cut flange.

=A0

Al=

=A0

=A0

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: = Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:06 PM=
To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t
Subject: [FlyRotary] Tuned l= engths

=A0

To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tun= ed lengths

=A0

Please post drawings/photos/specs...Yvon

=A0

Some photos of the intake manifold for the 20B are attached. It is 4.5=94 from flange to flange; the TB flange is at a slight angle to fit my installation= ; the TB is TWM 3003; 44mm diameter bores.

=A0

Another builder built his from my drawings and had a couple extra made.=A0 At least one is still available. The price is around $1000; I=92ll have to check. That=92s a real deal =96 by the time I had mine fabricated and heat treated it was over $2000.=A0 Let me know if anyone is interested.

=A0

Al




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