X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from securemail.ever-tek.com ([64.129.170.194] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with ESMTP id 4191533 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 03:50:39 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.129.170.194; envelope-from=cbarber@texasattorney.net Received: from fcd-mail06.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([2002:404:40b::404:40b]) by FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([2002:404:40b::404:40b]) with mapi; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 02:50:10 -0500 From: Chris Barber To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: More tuning Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: More tuning Thread-Index: AQHK0WQqm/S7RyIZ4kSuOazzT5Xph5INPCta Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:46:57 +0000 Message-ID: <2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3009FBFF7A@FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3009FBFF7AFCDMAIL06FCDATA_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3009FBFF7AFCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, No, sorry, I did not take any measurements. Which one would you like and I can see what I can do. All the best, Chris Barber Houston, GSOT ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of = George Lendich [lendich@aanet.com.au] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:24 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: More tuning Chris, Did you do any measurements when you got it - it is a nice piece of work IM= HO. George (down under) Just a data point....I have the Mistral intake if anyone wants to take a ga= nder at it and try to gather ideas for their own. Of course, it is install= ed and I am about ready to crank it all up following some concentration in = other areas for a while. But you are welcome to look. All the best, Chris Barber Houston, GSOT ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of = Lynn Hanover [lehanover@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:12 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] More tuning A coupleof sharp motor tuners and a day or so on a good repeatable dyno ca= n zero in on acceptable intake design that should set a good baseline for w= hat really works. You can sliderule / use fancy computer programs and other= methods of determining optimum designs but nothing trumps real time data i= n a running engine. Just my .02 cents worth. Ben Haas Oh, to have my own dyno again. The point was that there are many rotary engines to think about. Now days y= ou probably have a 13B side intake port, periphery exhaust, or the now comm= on Renesis with side intake and exhaust. And now converting both styles to = a home made periphery intake. Neither exsists in nature, so you may well be= on your own tuning wise. Stick to the basics. Velocities reversions, harmonics DIE, radius, Mach num= bers. As in radio wave reception, you are probably operating in the 1/4 wa= ve regeion. Remember the thing you built in the attic to get killer recepti= on on the black and white TV? The lower channel numbers had such a long wav= e length that it took a big attic to hang just a 1/4 wave length antenna. = And the UHF antenna was just a loop with barely 12" of wire involved. Remember the Cross Ram Dodges, with 4 barrel carbs hanging outboard of the = rocker covers. 460 foot pounds of torque. The runners were at least 4 times= the length of the dual plane regular manifold. So was the cross ram the full tuned length and the regular street manifold = runners were the 1/4 wave length? Or was the cross ram the half wave length= ? Usually the best harmonic peaks will be divisable by 4. So all of this harmonic, standing wave, pulse tuning stuff applies to one d= ynamic situation based on that engine RPM. Change the RPM and everything el= se changes too. There is nothing static about airplane engines. So the best= guess is to get it close to cruise RPM and then tune the daylights out of = it. The airplane is a kind of dyno. It provides a variable load. The engine= controller provides the tuning capability. Every flight can be used to rec= over usefull data. Use the SAE tables to return all data to the SAE standard day at sea level.= Make only one change per test. Record everything. Keep the records. Or, just copy the Mistral intake. Lynn E. Hanover --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3009FBFF7AFCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
George,
 
No, sorry, I did not take any measurements.
 
Which one would you like and I can see what I can do.
 
All the best,
 
Chris Barber
Houston, GSOT
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary= @lancaironline.net] on behalf of George Lendich [lendich@aanet.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:24 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: More tuning

Chris,
Did you do any measurements when you g= ot it - it is a nice piece of work IMHO.
George (down under) 
Just a data point....I have the Mistral intake if anyone wants to take= a gander at it and try to gather ideas for their own.  Of course, it = is installed and I am about ready to crank it all up following some concent= ration in other areas for a while.  But you are welcome to look.
 
All the best,
 
Chris Barber
Houston, GSOT
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary= @lancaironline.net] on behalf of Lynn Hanover [lehanover@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:12 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] More tuning

 A coupleof sharp motor tuners and a day or so on a good repeatab= le dyno can zero in on acceptable intake design that should set a good base= line for what really works. You can sliderule / use fancy computer programs= and other methods of determining optimum designs but nothing trumps real time data in a running engine. Just my .02= cents worth.
 
Ben Haas
 
Oh, to have my own dyno again.
 
The point was that there are many rotary engines to think about. Now d= ays you probably have a 13B side intake port, periphery exhaust, or the now= common Renesis with side intake and exhaust. And now converting both style= s to a home made periphery intake. Neither exsists in nature, so you may well be on your own tuning wise.
 
Stick to the basics. Velocities reversions, harmonics DIE, radius, Mac= h numbers.  As in radio wave reception, you are probably operating in = the 1/4 wave regeion. Remember the thing you built in the attic to get kill= er reception on the black and white TV? The lower channel numbers had such a long wave length that it took a big a= ttic to hang just a 1/4 wave length antenna.  And the UHF antenna was = just a loop with barely 12" of wire involved.
 
Remember the Cross Ram Dodges, with 4 barrel carbs hanging outboard of= the rocker covers. 460 foot pounds of torque. The runners were at least 4 = times the length of the dual plane regular manifold.
 
So was the cross ram the full tuned length and the regular street mani= fold runners were the 1/4 wave length? Or was the cross ram the half wave l= ength? Usually the best harmonic peaks will be divisable by 4.
 
So all of this harmonic, standing wave, pulse tuning stuff applies to = one dynamic situation based on that engine RPM. Change the RPM and everythi= ng else changes too. There is nothing static about airplane engines. So the= best guess is to get it close to cruise RPM and then tune the daylights out of it. The airplane is a kind o= f dyno. It provides a variable load. The engine controller provides the tun= ing capability. Every flight can be used to recover usefull data.
 
Use the SAE tables to return all data to the SAE standard day at sea l= evel. Make only one change per test. Record everything. Keep the records.
 
Or, just copy the Mistral intake.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
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