X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-db03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.2) with ESMTP id 4126925 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:01:07 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.91.97; envelope-from=SHIPCHIEF@aol.com Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1GI0UhN024265 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:30 -0500 Received: from SHIPCHIEF@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.c06.70cb13d4 (37144) for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com [64.12.95.97]) by cia-ma03.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA036-d3c84b7add232f6; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:26 -0500 Received: from webmail-m077 (webmail-m077.sim.aol.com [64.12.141.35]) by smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMC012-d3c84b7add232f6; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:03 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Air Pump Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:03 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 24.19.204.151 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CC7D48FFB096EF_46C4_3E16_webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 30746-STANDARD Received: from 24.19.204.151 by webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com (64.12.141.35) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:00:03 -0500 Message-Id: <8CC7D48FF79D721-46C4-1EF3@webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: SHIPCHIEF@aol.com ----------MB_8CC7D48FFB096EF_46C4_3E16_webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Bryan; For myself, I had to separate the air inlets for the radiator and the oil= cooler to get the radiator to work. I use the left cowl opening for air= to the throttle body, although some of this air also surface cools the en= gine. I would be concerned that tapping air from the radiator air scoop *m= ight* divert some air required for cooling or disrupt the airflow in the= duct and ruin the design airflow. Or not. Scott -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Winberry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:32 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Air Pump Al, My plan was to pull from the radiator scoop of the Sam james rotary cowl.= Do you think this area would be pressurized sufficiently at high speeds?= Any significant effect on radiator performance? Bryan =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Al Gietzen Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:28 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Air Pump =20 Before we get too excited about putting leaf blowers under the cowl; you= might consider this. The baseline case here (no blower) is with the plan= e standing still with at sharp edge intake at the TB =E2=80=93 correct? Fa= irly significant inlet pressure loss for that configuration. =20 You may get a similar increase in manifold pressure by putting a nice bell= -mouth entrance on the TB. And you will get a similar increase in manifold= pressure with a ram inlet scoop flying at about 160 Kts. =20 Al G =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Dennis Haverlah Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:58 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Air Pump =20 Bill: =20 Thanks to my younger brother who was brave enough (use younger brothers fo= r dangerous stuff) to operate the leaf blower I ran the leaf blower test= for the group. I used a fairly new hand held Echo leaf blower Model PB= 251 I "borrowed" from my neighbors hangar. =20 Specs - 25 cc 2 stroke,=20 Average Air Volume (cfm-pipe) 390 Average Air Volume (cfm-housing) 509 Maximum Air Speed (mph-pipe) 145 No information on rpm's at these data points were listed. I would guess= that the 2 stroke engines are operated between 6000 and 8000 rpm. but I'd like to have real rpm data. Four tests were conducted as shown below. Local air pressure was 30.2 in= Baro. - 0.5 in for 1000" =3D 29.7 in hg. air pressure at field elevation= . Weather was Clear, low humidity and 53 deg. OAT. All tests were at WOT. Pictures are attached for each test. Note the 180 deg. bend in the Scat= tubing during the (C) test. The (C) test picture was taken after we had taken the Scat tube but my bro= ther was holding it in place. Test condition Static max. RPM Manifold Pressure = Engine Temp. (A) Standard intake, 5870 28.9 = Barely warm=20 air filter etc. (B) W/O air filter & 5660 28.7 = Fully warm prop blast (C) Leaf Blower full 5925 29.9 = Fully warm throttle into throttle body - 180 deg turn. (D) Same as (A) 5700 29.0 = Fully warm It appears that the blower raised the inlet pressure by 1.2 in Hg. and the= engine rpm increased from 5700 to 5925 rpm. I needed to turn the mixture knob slightly richer with the blower running= to get max. power. Also note that the tube feeding the intake had to make a 180 deg. bend jus= t before the throttle body. The leaf blower used in this test was the smallest Echo makes. Their web= site lists approximately 15 blowers and the largest is a 63.3 cc 2 stroke= as follows: Average Air Volume (cfm-pipe) 620 Average Air Volume (cfm-housing) 1240 Maximum Air Speed (mph-pipe) 205 My thought is that several blowers are available that probably would provi= de the needed blower capacity. =20 I believe we need a system that is adaptable to using Tracy'c RD-1 drive.= I also believe it is not likely a centrifugal blower can be placed betwe= en the engine and gear box because the spacing between the gear box plate= and the engine is about 2.5 inches and the ring gear is approximately in= the middle of the space. If someone is interested in adding a direct dri= ve blower why not attach it to the rear of the engine with the centrifugal= fan attached to the crankshaft pulley? The fans from the big blowers = may have enough capacity to work at our crankshaft speeds. If this could= be made to work it would fit the majority of the rotary installations and= be an inexpensive way to add More Power Scotty. PS I have all the power I need with my DIE intake - if someone can find a= way to build it that may solve most of the power needs. Dennis Haverlah Bill Bradburry wrote: Has anybody ever tried hooking up a leaf blower to the throttle body inlet= and see what that would do to the static rpm and manifold pressure at WOT= ? =20 Bill B=20 =20 ----------MB_8CC7D48FFB096EF_46C4_3E16_webmail-m077.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Bryan;
For myself, I had to separate the air inlets for the radiator and the= oil cooler to get the radiator to work. I use the left cow= l opening for air to the throttle body, although some of this air also sur= face cools the engine. I would be concerned that tapping air from the radi= ator air scoop *might* divert some air required for cooling or disrupt the= airflow in the duct and ruin the design airflow.
Or not.
Scott



-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Winberry <bryanwinberry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2010 8:32 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Air Pump