X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omta1.toronto.rmgopenwave.com ([4.59.182.99] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.2) with ESMTP id 4126134 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:58:58 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=4.59.182.99; envelope-from=lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca Received: from torspm04.toronto.rmgopenwave.com ([142.167.79.193]) by tormtz01.toronto.rmgopenwave.com (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100215235824.DHTV15090.tormtz01.toronto.rmgopenwave.com@torspm04.toronto.rmgopenwave.com> for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:58:24 -0500 Received: from PCdeRita ([142.167.79.193]) by torspm04.toronto.rmgopenwave.com with SMTP id <20100215235823.CXQB30831.torspm04.toronto.rmgopenwave.com@PCdeRita> for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:58:23 -0500 Message-ID: <88C669B1C86E47C09CCAF29661BC0767@PCdeRita> From: "Rino" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: PSRU oiling question Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:58:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A5_01CAAE79.2DBF2D60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Opwv-CommTouchExtSvcRefID: str=0001.0A02020A.4B79DFA0.0042,ss=1,fgs=0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01CAAE79.2DBF2D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, I am sureTracy told you what to look for. Personnaly, I would install a = T in the oil line to the PSRU and add a temporary pressure gauge there = to see what is going on there. If your PSRU got a bad oil starvation = other parts like the gears would have suffered also but it does not seem = to be the case. Cold weather is probably not the cause, It gets much = colder up here -- in the north. Rino ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chris Barber=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:41 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: PSRU oiling question I regret that I caused some confusion. I am currently not having an = oil problem that I know of. I just wanted to become more educated on = how the oil flowed into the unit since I observed in entered slowly. =20 Of course, I may have other issues yet undiscovered. All the best, Chris Houston, GSOT -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on = behalf of Kelly Troyer [keltro@att.net] Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 2:11 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: PSRU oiling question Chris, Not Tracy but prop shaft main bearing is a sealed bearing not lubed = by engine oil.........The other bearing of the prop shaft is a sleeve (plain) type and is lubed = at engine oil pressure.... The planetary gears also are lubed from engine oil = pressure.............. -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Chris Barber = : --------------=20 I just received my PSRU back from Tracy. If I understand his = explanation correctly my prop shaft bearing at the end near the prop = (pusher) bound up somehow. He machined it, made other needed = adjustments (?) and sent it back to me very promptly...bout a week turn = around (of course I dropped a bit on overnight shipping to make sure he = got it before he was off again ). The problem may have been due to a couple of factors....not really = sure, but I discovered it after my plane was sitting out of the hangar = due to roof repairs for about 6 or 7 weeks. When I went up to start it = to taxi back to the hangar, I pulled the prop through a few times by = hand and all seemed fine. I started it up, started, was tickled, but it = it stalled. Did I mention it was REALLY cold for Houston...about 27 = degrees. I started it again and is sounded "labored" and was running = poorly. It was about 1:00 am (I had just gotten off duty), so I figured = I call it a night. I got out and turned the prop through again and = could barely turn the prop. Damn. I thought I toasted another engine. = Damn. A couple of days later a friend and I pushed the plane back to the = hangar and I walked away from the issue for a couple of weeks. Went so = far as to even looking at financing a Lyc . I distracted = myself by doing some interior work and wiring...actually got my radios = far enough along to listen to ATIS for a few minutes...on the bench. Finally, two days after my recent loss, I forced myself to the = hangar and pulled the PSRU. I had already looked inside the exhaust = ports and the chambers looked clean and smooth. I had also drained the = oil, with a magnet (I know, some is aluminum) in the drain filter and = found it all to be perfectly clean. Well, without the PSRU the engine = turned perfectly making that sweet churning sound through the open spark = plug holes. I turned to the PSRU. I took out each section slooooowly. No signs = of binding, chipping or any other damage in each part....until I got to = the last section, the sealed section by the prop. The prop hub would = not turn. I could barely turn it with the prop on. Without the prop is = was a no go. So, I sent it to Tracy. ANYWAY, now that I have it back mounted on the bird I am curious as = to the oil going into the system. Even though I went through this long = explanation, I only have a questions about the oil entering the PSRU. = There is no reason to suspect any oiling issues caused the previous = problem...I just like to share on occasion. However, last night when I = was hooking up everything I decided to pour some oil directly into the = in oil hole on top of the PSRU. My curiosity is that it just kinda set = there and very slowly seemed to seep into the PSRU. Does oil pressure = forced it into the PSRU, thus getting more oil in. I would think with = everything spinning etc under power the oil flow etc would be much more = dynamic, thus providing a more significant lubricating event. I don't = really know what I was expecting. my oil flow seems good. It just got = me thinking and wanting to have a better understanding. TIA All the best, Chris Houston, GSOT ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01CAAE79.2DBF2D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,
 
I am sureTracy told you what to look = for. =20 Personnaly, I would install a T in the oil line to the PSRU and add a = temporary=20 pressure gauge there to see what is going on there.   If your = PSRU got=20 a bad oil starvation other parts like the gears would have suffered also = but it=20 does not seem to be the case.   Cold weather is probably not = the=20 cause, It gets much colder up here -- in the north.
 
Rino
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Chris Barber
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 = 4:41=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: PSRU = oiling=20 question

I regret that I caused some confusion.  I am currently not = having an=20 oil problem that I know of.  I just wanted to become more = educated on how=20 the oil flowed into the unit since I observed in entered slowly.  =
 
Of course, I may have other issues yet undiscovered.
 
All the best,
 
Chris
Houston, GSOT

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Kelly Troyer=20 [keltro@att.net]
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 2:11=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 PSRU oiling question

Chris,
  Not Tracy but prop shaft main bearing is a sealed bearing = not=20 lubed by engine oil.........The
other bearing of the prop shaft is a sleeve (plain) type and is = lubed at=20 engine oil pressure....
 The planetary gears also are lubed from engine oil=20 pressure..............
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B=20 ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=20



 
--------------=20 Original message from Chris Barber = <cbarber@texasattorney.net>:=20 --------------

I just received my PSRU back = from=20 Tracy.  If I understand his explanation correctly my prop shaft = bearing=20 at the end near the prop (pusher) bound up somehow.  He = machined=20 it, made other needed adjustments (?) and sent it back to me very=20 promptly...bout a week turn around (of course I dropped a bit on=20 overnight shipping to make sure he got it before he was = off=20 again <g>).
 
The problem may have been due to a couple of factors....not = really=20 sure, but I discovered it after my plane was sitting out of the = hangar due=20 to roof repairs for about 6 or 7 weeks.  When I went up to = start it to=20 taxi back to the hangar, I pulled the prop through a few times by = hand and=20 all seemed fine.  I started it up, started, was tickled, but=20 it it stalled. Did I mention it was REALLY = cold for=20 Houston...about 27 degrees.  I started it again and is sounded=20 "labored" and was running poorly.  It was about 1:00 am (I had = just=20 gotten off duty), so I figured I call it a night.  I got out = and turned=20 the prop through again and could barely turn the prop. Damn.  I = thought=20 I toasted another engine. Damn.
 
A couple of days later a friend and I pushed the plane back to = the=20 hangar and I walked away from the issue for a couple of weeks. Went = so far=20 as to even looking at financing a Lyc=20 <shudder>.  I distracted myself by doing some interior = work and=20 wiring...actually got my radios far enough along to listen=20 to ATIS for a few minutes...on the bench.
 
Finally, two days after my recent loss, I forced myself to the = hangar=20 and pulled the PSRU.  I had already looked inside = the=20 exhaust ports and the chambers looked clean and smooth.  I had = also=20 drained the oil, with a magnet (I know, some is aluminum) in the = drain=20 filter and found it all to be perfectly clean.  Well, without=20 the PSRU the engine turned perfectly making that = sweet=20 churning sound through the open spark plug holes.
 
I turned to the PSRU.  I took = out each=20 section slooooowly.  No signs of binding, = chipping or any=20 other damage in each part....until I got to the last section, the = sealed=20 section by the prop.  The prop hub would not turn.  I = could barely=20 turn it with the prop on. Without the prop is was a no go.  So, = I sent=20 it to Tracy.
 
ANYWAY, now that I have it back mounted on the bird I am = curious as to=20 the oil going into the system.  Even though I went through = this=20 long explanation, I only have a questions about the oil = entering the=20 PSRU.  There is no reason to suspect any oiling = issues=20 caused the previous problem...I just like to share on = occasion. =20 However, last night when I was hooking up everything I = decided=20 to pour some oil directly into the in oil hole on top of = the=20 PSRU.  My curiosity is that it=20 just kinda set there and very slowly seemed to = seep into=20 the PSRU.  Does oil pressure forced it into the=20 PSRU, thus getting more oil in.  I would think=20 with everything spinning etc under power the oil flow = etc would=20 be much more dynamic, thus providing a more significant lubricating=20 event.  I don't really know what I was expecting.  my oil = flow=20 seems good.  It just got me thinking and wanting to have a = better=20 understanding.  TIA
 
All the best,
 
Chris
Houston,=20 GSOT
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