X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qy0-f200.google.com ([209.85.221.200] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.2) with ESMTP id 4114722 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:22:42 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.200; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by qyk38 with SMTP id 38so263141qyk.1 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:22:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=n87ILkSsNgwltnnribFtO0q5pMLpyZR+K/Q4p/AKMn0=; b=J9lMcIsbyW4yn5cn6MxFpqQXYAlWyXdgByymPnUvTJGaOWpy18wHWAFzHU4l6szrMx +CmzeLLPQuG6beSUlcL5Mdisf3bJKfAYyGr42o45vPJEdlAC3HNbkX8TqQdkxHzSSBp/ +LEayG/nr951IZxazTbyTbuZ9xMbmtJ9WGq58= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Jamu6kDVWgGPJ/RhH4vb+Bw3bs2jJZA/rmBBx/xeUJOITOGJDOXPA8GI/yc7Ub7SsB 764y/AghiaUZmCjpOPvPXd6B6760nMu3g+aEuyZ253bKVelXGyVh75o+zt/cJOpBx9vY ov0PcTtOtpIOXgzojGgXL8R/J6R9Gze+Yz+68= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.53.80 with SMTP id l16mr1905777qag.345.1265545318174; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:21:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:21:58 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7f6cdf710e5deff8 Message-ID: <1b4b137c1002070421hf70ed3m23fac5557f4644d0@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: N.A. Renesis to turbo From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f905f9923111f047f01bb11 --00c09f905f9923111f047f01bb11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Not such a crazy idea Bill. It might even be less expensive than building up a proper turbo installation for the Renesis. But I can't imagine wanting more power than the 20B on an RV-8. Mine reaches Vne at well below full power. Tracy On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:14 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > Hmmm, only 16 hours and it is already not fast enough! :>) > > The Renesis is not turboed from the factory. I think the reason might be > that the rotors are 10 to 1, not 9.7. I suspect that you should change > rotors if you turbo. > I am not flying and am amazed that you would want to jump back into > building > so soon after getting in the air....but > If you want more performance, I suggest you go with a 20B instead of a > turbo. You could continue to fly while you build the engine on a mock up > firewall. As soon as everything is done, you could do a quick engine swap. > Probably take less than a couple of days and you would be back in the air. > This time with real horses...which within, maybe, 20 hours, will be too > slow! :>) > > Bill B > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Don Wallker > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 9:22 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] N.A. Renesis to turbo > > Dear list, Turbo flyers and especially David Leonard, > I've 16 flying hours on my RV-8 with a Renesis and all of Tracy's stuff > and a Catto 76/88. The airplane flys great, just like an RV, no gliding > time, and about 36 hours on the ground. > SPECS > Full throttle 8,000' 174 mph indicated, 2450 on the prop, water 185, > oil 205, > Climb out 110 mph, rate of climb, 1250'/min. Field elevation 5046. > > These are not bad numbers, but I would like better. I've been influenced > by > some of the the local jet jocks who say that there is no > such thing as too much horsepower and they are right! N113BR seems to > be performing about like a 160-170 HP RV. So I am investigating turboing > it! The idea is to have a little better than sea level performance on take > off (designed for 210HP N.A.) and turbo normalizing at cruise. Up to > 12000' > would be nice. > During the air races this year, Dave Leonard showed up and I was very > impressed by his airplane. He was able to turbo and inter cool it and have > it all inside an RV cowl, so I'll likely base my installation on his. > Plus, he has been through the learning curve of 3 or so turbos so he knows > what to do, what not to do and what would be better if he were to do it all > over again. > > I've spent the afternoon looking through the archives, reading as much as I > can find about turbos, and downloading all the photos I can. Here is what > I > am tentatively planning on doing. > Get one of Techwelding's Renesis exhaust flanges made from 304 SS and have > my local waterjet guy copy it and make one out of 321SS. I'll weld > 321 SS and manifold it together and run it into the bottom of the turbo > that will sit right in front of the exhaust. The turbo will have > additional > support. Run the turbo outlet air from it through a stock > RX-7 inter cooler sitting in front of the left cheek opening and then out > to > the right side of the engine, probably routing it under the PSRU and then > up > to a throttle body and manifold. Then four al tubes over the top of the > engine into a cut down and welded up stock RX-8 intake manifold. The > exhaust out of the turbo will run down and out in the usual center of the > back of the cowl opening. I am thinking of trying one of Burns Stainless > all SS mufflers. It is basically a glass pack, but instead of glass, they > are using stainless steel wool and they say it is holding up for the rotary > racers. They make it any length you want and is about 4 lbs with their SS > vs 9 lbs with the hushpower 2 I'm using now. The combustion air intake to > the turbo will be on the aft left side of the cowl via an NACA duct opening > as Dave's is. > The oil cooler will have to be moved to under the engine. I will build up > a > fiberglass scoop, probably based on Van's scoop and modify it to have a > bigger opening and be farther forward, closer to the prop. I will probably > have the oil cooler made a little larger (Techwelding) than the one I have > now. > > That's the basic idea at this point. I'll finalize my plan, prebuild as > much as possible before tearing the airplane apart and try for as little > down time as possible. I'm looking for the list's critique here, plus > questions that I will have missed. The following are a list of questions > that I have. > 1. Which turbo should I use, which orientation and who should I use to > do the work, plus what is the approximate price? TO4 hybrid? Dave and > Steve Brooks mention BNR turbo as a modifier. Who manufactures the turbo? > 2. What is the ideal situation with a waste gate? Full open or not, or, > or? > 3. I read about a N.O.oil line solenoid to the turbo bearings. I assume > that if the Turbo fails, you turn it on to the N.C. position to prevent oil > from being pumped down your exhaust? I assume the oil that is used is > routed back to the sump. > 4. What size exhaust is optimum? It seems Dave is running 2.5 inch. > 5. What size throttle body should I use and what would be a good one? > One throttle body or two? > 4. What size injectors should I use, and where should the secondaries > be placed? Dave is using 480cc and staging is at 32 inches. Are you > using the same for the primaries and is there an idle problem with the > larger injectors? > 5. Anyone out there turboing a Renesis? Anyone flying one? > 6. My compression is 9.7 to 1. Any problems with this higher > compression ratio as long as I use an inter cooler and keep the boost no > higher than 35"? > And lot more questions, but that's all I can think of now. > So If any of you can add any thought, let me know. > > Don Walker > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --00c09f905f9923111f047f01bb11 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not such a crazy idea Bill.=A0 It might even be less expensive than buildin= g up a proper turbo installation for the Renesis.=A0

But I can'= t imagine wanting more power than the 20B on an RV-8.=A0 Mine reaches Vne a= t well below full power.

Tracy

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:14 AM= , Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hmmm, only 16 hours and it is already not fast enough! =A0:>)

The Renesis is not turboed from the factory. =A0I think the reason might be=
that the rotors are 10 to 1, not 9.7. =A0I suspect that you should change rotors if you turbo.
I am not flying and am amazed that you would want to jump back into buildin= g
so soon after getting in the air....but
If you want more performance, I suggest you go with a 20B instead of a
turbo. =A0You could continue to fly while you build the engine on a mock up=
firewall. =A0As soon as everything is done, you could do a quick engine swa= p.
Probably take less than a couple of days and you would be back in the air.<= br> This time with real horses...which within, maybe, 20 hours, will be too
slow! =A0:>)

Bill B

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Don Wallker
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 9:22 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] N.A. Renesis to turbo

Dear list, Turbo flyers and especially David Leonard,
=A0 =A0I've 16 flying hours on my RV-8 with a Renesis and all of Tracy= 's stuff
and a Catto 76/88. =A0The airplane flys great, just like an RV, no gliding<= br> time, and about 36 hours on the ground.
SPECS
Full throttle 8,000' =A0 174 mph indicated, 2450 on the prop, water 185= ,
oil 205,
Climb out 110 mph, rate of climb, 1250'/min. =A0Field elevation 5046.
These are not bad numbers, but I would like better. =A0I've been influe= nced by
some of the the local jet jocks who say that there is no
such thing as too much horsepower and they are right! =A0 N113BR seems to be performing about like a 160-170 HP RV. =A0So I am investigating turboing=
it! =A0The idea is to have a little better than sea level performance on ta= ke
off (designed for 210HP N.A.) and turbo normalizing at cruise. =A0Up to 120= 00'
would be nice.
During the air races this year, Dave Leonard showed up and I was very
impressed by his airplane. =A0He was able to turbo and inter cool it and ha= ve
it all inside an RV cowl, so I'll =A0likely base my installation on his= .
Plus, he has been through the learning curve of 3 or so turbos so he knows<= br> what to do, what not to do and what would be better if he were to do it all=
over again.

I've spent the afternoon looking through the archives, reading as much = as I
can find about turbos, and downloading all the photos I can. =A0Here is wha= t I
am tentatively planning =A0on doing.
Get one of Techwelding's Renesis exhaust flanges made from 304 SS and h= ave
my local waterjet guy copy it and make one out of 321SS. =A0I'll weld 321 SS and =A0manifold it together and run it into the bottom of the turbo<= br> that will sit right in front of the exhaust. =A0The turbo will have additio= nal
support. =A0Run the turbo outlet air from it through a stock
RX-7 inter cooler sitting in front of the left cheek opening and then out t= o
the right side of the engine, probably routing it under the PSRU and then u= p
to a throttle body and manifold. =A0Then four al tubes over the top of the<= br> engine into a cut down and welded up stock RX-8 =A0intake manifold. =A0The<= br> exhaust out of the turbo will run down and out in the usual center of the back of the cowl opening. =A0I am thinking of trying one of Burns Stainless=
all SS mufflers. =A0It is basically a glass pack, but instead of glass, the= y
are using stainless steel wool and they say it is holding up for the rotary=
racers. =A0They make it any length you want and is about 4 lbs with their S= S
vs 9 lbs with the hushpower 2 I'm using now. =A0The combustion air inta= ke to
the turbo will be on the aft left side of the cowl via an NACA duct opening=
as Dave's is.
The oil cooler will have to be moved to under the engine. =A0I will build u= p a
fiberglass scoop, probably based on Van's scoop and modify it to have a=
bigger opening and be farther forward, closer to the prop. =A0I will probab= ly
have the oil cooler made a little larger (Techwelding) than the one I have<= br> now.

That's the basic idea at this point. =A0I'll finalize my plan, preb= uild as
much as possible before tearing the airplane apart and try for as little down time as possible. =A0I'm looking for the list's critique here,= plus
questions that I will have missed. =A0The following are a list of questions=
that I have.
1. Which turbo should I use, which orientation and who should I use to
do the work, plus what is the approximate price? =A0 TO4 hybrid? =A0Dave an= d
Steve Brooks mention BNR turbo as a modifier. =A0Who manufactures the turbo= ?
2. What is the ideal situation with a waste gate? =A0Full open or not, or, = or?
3. I read about a N.O.oil line solenoid to the turbo bearings. =A0I assume<= br> that if the Turbo fails, you turn it on to the N.C. position to prevent oil=
from being pumped down your exhaust? =A0I assume the oil that is used is routed back to the sump.
4. What size exhaust is optimum? =A0It seems Dave is running 2.5 inch.
5. =A0What size throttle body should I use and what would be a good one? One throttle body or two?
4. =A0What size injectors should I use, and where should the secondaries be placed? =A0 Dave is using 480cc and staging is at 32 inches. =A0Are you<= br> using the same for the primaries and is there an idle problem with the
larger injectors?
5. =A0Anyone out there turboing a Renesis? =A0Anyone flying one?
6. =A0My compression is 9.7 to 1. =A0 Any problems with this higher
compression ratio as long as I use an inter cooler and keep the boost no higher than 35"?
And lot more questions, but that's all I can think of now.
So If any of you can add any thought, let me know.

Don Walker

--
Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--
Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html

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