X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from lrcmmta08-srv.windstream.net ([166.102.165.80] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.2) with ESMTP id 4103496 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:18:53 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=166.102.165.80; envelope-from=montyr2157@windstream.net Return-Path: X-WS-COS: WSOB804 X-Cloudmark-Category: Undefined:Undefined X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=2abA+d5lQa5Zzbp+bWwGoVZY2lBrpZeIG2l89E+tZLg= c=1 sm=0 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=hkVnaZr93JLvVG3vweIA:9 a=8v2s3mlA3N6HOBYpdRoA:7 a=nCJ6EYJdjcPivBwZtnXxCWcd308A:4 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=5kgCHx-JAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=RghJYVJORHYSjjGtZ_cA:9 a=0HbwcyvroTubQIWh1bcA:7 a=ceyvBvP2qpgrG1-Fo5n3HQW5DMYA:4 a=BPCOYmGL8QAA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=aYmXFaDsvdUtdcjyLRK/+g==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 Authentication-Results: lrcmmta08 smtp.user=montyr2157; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [98.20.138.133] ([98.20.138.133:60369] helo=newbox) by lrcmmta08 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.45 r()) with ESMTPA id 6E/30-12830-84A036B4; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 10:18:16 -0600 Message-ID: <1359DFF1E26A44B5BA49C67F39308E40@newbox> From: "MONTY ROBERTS" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Tiff to CAD Software Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 10:18:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01CAA0CC.5F5837F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CAA0CC.5F5837F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thomas, Not trying to rain on your parade, but why do you think that something = designed to cool a 1500 hp WW2 fighter at speeds over 300 mph and then = scaled to fit in your airframe is what you need for your application? You should calculate what your particular situation needs and go from = there. The math is not that hard, in fact I think Ed has a spreadsheet = he would probably be willing to share if you asked nicely. I think he = would even run some numbers for you. If you want to make it look like = the P51 installation fine, but size all the radiators, inlets and exits = for your speed, altitude and power levels. Then draw the P51 like scoop = around that and see if it still fits. 1.) determine how much HP you plan to make continuously. 2.) figure out how much heat will be rejected at that HP. 3.) figure out how fast your airplane will go with that much HP. 4.) size inlet and exit accordingly. 5.) Check over range of altitudes repeat step 4 and 5. 6.) look at hot day takeoff and climb. size max exit opening for that. 7.) compare your results to the other flying examples closest to your = application for a sanity check 8.) If you are the outlier you better understand why or start over I would look very closely at what Al G has done as well as others = successfully flying canard aircraft with rotaries. They have much more = in common with your application than the P51. Monty ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thomas Mann=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:36 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Tiff to CAD Software In my efforts to transpose the TIFF image format of a Microfiche image = of a hand drafted blue print of the P-51 scoop and related drawings. =20 As you might imagine, just dealing with the grainy images is in itself = somewhat difficult but trying to translate it into a CAD drawing is even = more daunting. =20 SOLUTION: I scratched up a software program yesterday that will allow me to do = the following. =B7 Import a graphic file. =B7 Determine the scale (pixels to inch) =B7 Select a start point (lower left corner of my converted = image) =B7 Allow me to trace the drawing and convert it to a CAD = script using mouse clicks to define points of the drawing. =20 It's more of a prototype at the moment but I can make it into a = deployable application once I make a few enhancements. I tested it on = three of the images yesterday and totally blew through the process = creating scripts for the radiator exhaust door, oil cooler exhaust door, = front profile of the scoop (oil cooler forward) and all the associated = bulkhead drawings in a couple hours.=20 =20 The end result is I can scale the scoop drawings at roughly 61% and = have a full size drawing to use as templates, etc. for my application. I = plan of plotting these out full size this weekend and start on the = actual fabrication of the scoop & diffuser. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2655 - Release Date: = 01/29/10 09:08:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CAA0CC.5F5837F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thomas,
 
Not trying to rain on your parade, but = why do you=20 think that something designed to cool a 1500 hp WW2 fighter at speeds = over 300=20 mph and then scaled to fit in your airframe is what you need for = your=20 application?
 
You should calculate = what your particular=20 situation needs and go from there. The math is not that hard, in fact I = think Ed=20 has a spreadsheet he would probably be willing to share if you asked = nicely. I=20 think he would even run some numbers for you. If you want to make it = look like=20 the P51 installation fine, but size all the radiators, inlets and exits = for your=20 speed, altitude and power levels. Then draw the P51 like scoop = around that=20 and see if it still fits.
 
1.) determine how much HP you plan to = make=20 continuously.
2.) figure out how much heat will be = rejected at=20 that HP.
3.) figure out how fast your airplane = will go with=20 that much HP.
4.) size inlet and exit = accordingly.
5.) Check over range of altitudes = repeat step 4 and=20 5.
6.) look at hot day takeoff and climb. = size max=20 exit opening for that.
7.) compare your results to the other = flying=20 examples closest to your application for a sanity check
8.) If you are the outlier you better = understand=20 why or start over
 
I would look very closely at what Al G = has done as=20 well as others successfully flying canard aircraft with rotaries. They = have much=20 more in common with your application than the P51.
 
Monty
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Thomas = Mann=20
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 = 9:36=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Tiff to = CAD=20 Software

In=20 my efforts to transpose the TIFF image format of a Microfiche image of = a hand=20 drafted blue print of the P-51 scoop and related=20 drawings.

 

As=20 you might imagine, just dealing with the grainy images is in itself = somewhat=20 difficult but trying to translate it into a CAD drawing is even more=20 daunting.

 

SOLUTION:

I=20 scratched up a software program yesterday that will allow me to do the = following.

=B7        =20 Import=20 a graphic file.

=B7        =20 Determine=20 the scale (pixels to inch)

=B7        =20 Select=20 a start point (lower left corner of my converted = image)

=B7        =20 Allow=20 me to trace the drawing and convert it to a CAD script using mouse = clicks to=20 define points of the drawing.

 

It=92s=20 more of a prototype at the moment but I can make it into a deployable=20 application once I make a few enhancements. I tested it on three of = the images=20 yesterday and totally blew through the process creating scripts for = the=20 radiator exhaust door, oil cooler exhaust door, front profile of the = scoop=20 (oil cooler forward) and all the associated bulkhead drawings in a = couple=20 hours.

 

The=20 end result is I can scale the scoop drawings at roughly 61% and have a = full=20 size drawing to use as templates, etc. for my application. I plan of = plotting=20 these out full size this weekend and start on the actual fabrication = of the=20 scoop & diffuser.


No virus found in this incoming = message.
Checked by=20 AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2655 = -=20 Release Date: 01/29/10 09:08:00
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