X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTP id 4073030 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:02:06 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=zm4jE3b3x8MA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=WrMfpB0aAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=efyV6b1THRdXihFcm4oA:9 a=sCUDyirH6_V4OrutkD4A:7 a=f0VqIsvRv5SykPpTToC1H2fNB6gA:4 a=9wBI3Xk3sDoA:10 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=ry8MVad0ip7tOnvY:21 a=WQZ5pogjuJ1k1QQM:21 a=Y2VNeNrzAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=TW66zc2HAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=HQ31llbKAAAA:8 a=LeokPlnN7EFVfSNn11IA:9 a=wJ9qRt8hD6kHWa2O9Z0A:7 a=gLSTAdB0V7gEkMVstuBQZgT15CMA:4 a=iHsabmaMPP0A:10 a=wnctERWbrYNzN1P6:21 a=Pwu70CkgTsiJNxTs:21 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.191.186.236 Received: from [75.191.186.236] ([75.191.186.236:1972] helo=computername) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 85/3B-19578-AF7DB4B4; Tue, 12 Jan 2010 02:01:31 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" Message-ID: <85.3B.19578.AF7DB4B4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: P-51 Scoop (Radiator/Oil Cooler) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:01:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01CA9301.447CA430" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcqTIwMuE0PjII9qQHSigLmNrnO0xwABuYkQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01CA9301.447CA430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Exciting to see those race birds up close I'm sure. All sorts of things come into play when racing - one is running the engine beyond its "normal" limits - if the engine blows you don't have to worry about a POW camp like the P-51 boys did {:>) - maybe other things but not POW camp. The fact that these guys are racing at what? - 5000 MSL rather than 20000 MSL means they have the denser air going for them in cooling and cooling air mass is what you want. It is also possible to divert the boundary layer inside the duct so that it does adversely affect the cooling. There might be drag factors why you would want to do this. There are probably dozens of other factors I haven't thought of that can be brought to bear in a "limited" production racer that simply wouldn't be feasible in a massed produced fighter. However, nothing I stated should be construed as having anything but awesome respect for what those guys can do with those old WWII war birds as a basis. Always wanted to make it to Reno and see them race. The only time I was in Reno was in 1961 freezing my starving butt off drudging up and down the snow covered mountains in Strategic Air Command survival school conducted there at Stead AFB,NV {:>) Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:03 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: P-51 Scoop (Radiator/Oil Cooler) Cant help you there Ed, but I can tell you this. The inlet and exit on Strega, the unlimited Reno racer, which is a highly modified P-51, is even smaller than stock. Strega probably produces two to three times the HP of a stock P-51. Many years ago when first contemplating the 13B install I walked around the Reno pits with a tape measure and took a bunch of notes (which I've long since lost). Another interesting tidbit about Strega is the inlet eliminates the boundary layer splitter found on the stock Mustang which is supposed to be so necessary. Having said all that, I still think its easier/better to keep the cooling system under the cowl in most cases. More likely to come up with something that works out of the box, and I'm sure it works better during extended ground runs/taxi, something even stock Mustangs have a problem with. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW From: Ed Anderson Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:42 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: P-51 Scoop (Radiator/Oil Cooler) Boy, they really skinny down the inlets and exits on that P 51 duct. If you ever come up with the dimensions of the radiator I would like to know them. I'd like to try and calculate some of the airflow parameters in the duct while at 400 + Mph to see how much power it would theoretically dissipate based on air flow alone.. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Thomas Mann Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:58 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] P-51 Scoop (Radiator/Oil Cooler) I'm still on my quest for information to improve on my design of my P-51 scoop. I did acquire an accurate drawing that is a true scale rendering of the scoop and the diffuser. I figured I'd better share it. It's a little difficult to find. I apologize for the quality of the drawing. It's a print from digital rendering from a microfiche of the original blueprints from North American. It's enough for me to transfer to CAD and then scale to my application. Interesting stuff. I scaled it down but it's too big to attach so please use the link below: http://forum.canardaviation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4674&d=126322486 9 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01CA9301.447CA430 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Exciting to see those race birds up = close I’m sure.  All sorts of things come into play when racing =  - one is running the engine beyond its “normal” limits – = if the engine blows you don’t have to worry about a POW camp like the = P-51 boys did {:>) – maybe other things but not POW camp.  =

 

The fact that these guys are racing = at what? -  5000 MSL rather than 20000 MSL  means they have the = denser air going for them in cooling and cooling air mass is what you = want.

It is also possible to divert the = boundary layer inside the duct so that it does adversely affect the cooling. = There might be drag factors why you would want to do this.   There are = probably dozens of other factors I haven’t thought of that can be brought = to bear in a “limited” production racer that simply wouldn’t = be feasible in a massed produced fighter.

 

However, nothing I stated should be = construed as having anything but awesome respect for what those guys can do with = those old WWII war birds as a basis.

 

Always wanted to make it to = Reno and see = them race.  The only time I was in Reno was in 1961 freezing my starving = butt off drudging up and down the snow covered mountains in Strategic Air = Command survival school conducted there at Stead AFB,NV = {:>)

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Monday, January 11, = 2010 8:03 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = P-51 Scoop (Radiator/Oil Cooler)

 

Cant help you there Ed, but I can tell you this. = The inlet and exit on Strega, the unlimited Reno racer, which is a highly modified P-51, is even smaller than stock. = Strega probably produces two to three times the HP of a stock P-51. Many years = ago when first contemplating the 13B install I walked around the Reno pits with a tape measure and = took a bunch of notes (which I've long since = lost).

 

Another interesting tidbit about Strega is the = inlet eliminates the boundary layer splitter found on the stock Mustang which = is supposed to be so necessary.

 

Having said all that, I still think its = easier/better to keep the cooling system under the cowl in most cases. More likely to = come up with something that works out of the box, and I'm sure it works better = during extended ground runs/taxi, something even stock Mustangs have a problem = with.

 

Mike Wills

RV-4 N144MW

 

From: Ed Anderson

Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:42 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: P-51 Scoop (Radiator/Oil = Cooler)

 

Boy, they really skinny down the = inlets and exits on that P 51 duct.  If you ever come up with the = dimensions of the radiator I would like to know them.  I’d like to try and calculate some of the airflow parameters in the duct while at 400 + Mph = to see how much power it would theoretically dissipate based on air flow = alone..

 

Ed

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Thomas Mann
Sent: Monday, January 11, = 2010 11:58 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] P-51 = Scoop (Radiator/Oil Cooler)

 

I’m = still on my quest for  information to improve on my design of my P-51 scoop. = I did acquire an accurate drawing that is a true scale rendering of the scoop and the diffuser. I figured I’d better share it. It’s a little = difficult to find.

 <= /o:p>

I apologize = for the quality of the drawing. It’s a print from digital rendering from a microfiche of the original blueprints from North American. It’s = enough for me to transfer to CAD and then scale to my application. Interesting = stuff.

 <= /o:p>

I scaled it = down but it’s too big to attach so please use the link = below:

 <= /o:p>

http://forum= .canardaviation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3D4674&d=3D1263224869=

 <= /o:p>



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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