X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from EXHUB003-3.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.110] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTPS id 4070323 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:46:29 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.5.74.110; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from EXVMBX003-5.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.45]) by EXHUB003-3.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.110]) with mapi; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 05:45:51 -0800 From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 05:45:50 -0800 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe Thread-Index: AcqQs6vDcBb9YIJTR2CFPiMegXFA5wAfIhsi Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E01669B31FED0EXVMBX0035e_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E01669B31FED0EXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, I'm not sure about the Renesis but the 13B comes stock with a tempera= ture probe and a low-oil sensor in the oil pan - perhaps at that point 240F= is max temp., as it's going to higher than the 210 maximum return. There = is also a temperature probe in the water pump housing. Jeff ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:40 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe No, that is great, Mark. BUT I didn=92t ask the question correctly. There has been a lot of discuss= ion on the list about temperature red lines. Searching thru the Mazda stuf= f I have, I found that the normal operating temperature of the Renesis tops= out at 240 degrees=85.much higher than most or all of us use for our perso= nal red line. The jpeg from Jeff caused me to try and find the normal operating temperatu= re spec for the oil on the Renesis. I couldn=92t find one and then after l= ooking at the drawing again, I don=92t see a temperature sensor in the oil = system for the car. The only sensor I could find was the thermostat in th= e cooler that will bypass the cooler when it is cold. Nothing seems to be = indicated if the oil is hot. Only if the water is hot. Bill B ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:32 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe Bill, Since you didn't direct your question to any specific person, I'll tell you= how I set up my engine monitoring system up. I measure temp and pressure = of both the oil and water. I also measure water level (float switch in the= purge tank) as well as the return water temp back into the engine (after t= he radiator). So, from this I can tell how well my exchangers are working.= As an example, I normally see a 40* delta-T across the oil cooler. If th= is drops, my temps go up and I need to land and find out what's not right. = I also measure coolant pressure. If pressure is low / high, I need to inv= estigate. Is this information overload? Maybe, but I would rather have too much data= than not enough. Mark S. On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry > wrote: Am I correct in my assumption that the engine only has an oil pressure sens= or and not an oil temperature sensor? Is the only engine temperature monit= ored by the coolant temperature sensor??? Bill B ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 1:04 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe Ben, you=92re right in that any one probe does not tell the whole story, bu= t specific to the Rotary if only one probe is provided/available then the i= nput oil temperature is most important. The oil flow diagrams show return = oil from cooler is pumped through e-shaft and sprayed inside the rotors for= their cooling. Previous posts and literature state that the rotor oil sea= ls will be damaged by sustained oil temperature >210F. It is also important to use similar instrumentation to other builders for d= irect comparison from one installation to the next =85 I only measure return oil temperature myself; I=92d be interested to know w= hat delta T=92s (oil) other builders are seeing. Jeff From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of ben haas Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:17 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe I respectivly disagree on the oil temp sender location. One can have a very= efficient oil cooler that removes alot of heat from the oil. Oil 'in' tem= ps are important but,,,, You could possibly have a motor making alot of oil= heat and slowing cooking the motor over time and not really know it. Just = like with the water temp probe. One needs to know exactly what is happening= in the motor in real time... YMMV. Ben Haas www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 06:18:39 -0600 From: msteitle@gmail.com Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe Kevin, I think you want to measure the temp of the coolant as it exits the engine.= That way you know how close you are to your upper operating limit. If yo= u have a second input, you can measure the temps after the radiator. Oil temps are just the opposite... measure temps after oil has been through= the cooler and is entering the engine. Mark S. On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:52 AM, kevin lane > wrote: in looking for a place to mount a water temp probe I realized my radiator h= as a drain plug fitting on the bottom of one of the end tanks that could wo= rk. that portion of the tank has cooled water about to return to the pump.= does it matter if I monitor the before or after radiator temps? the eng= ine sees both, right? same question as to the oil temp probe. the stock oil cooler has a large f= itting [plug?] underneath of one end tank, not sure of its usage. also hav= e an extra plug in the oil pan [out the side] which might work [?] told th= at originally had a oil level sender unit in there. kevin ________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now. This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E01669B31FED0EXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill, I= 'm not sure about the Renesis but the 13B comes stock with a temperature pr= obe and a low-oil sensor in the oil pan - perhaps at that point 240F is max= temp., as it's going to higher than the 210 maximum return.  There is also a temperature probe in the wa= ter pump housing.
Jeff
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsout= h.net]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:40 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe

No, that is great, Mark.

BUT I didn=92t ask the question correctly.  Ther= e has been a lot of discussion on the list about temperature red lines.&nbs= p; Searching thru the Mazda stuff I have, I found that the normal operating temperature of the Renesis tops out at 240 degrees=85= .much higher than most or all of us use for our personal red line.

The jpeg from Jeff caused me to try and find the norm= al operating temperature spec for the oil on the Renesis.  I couldn=92= t find one and then after looking at the drawing again, I don=92t see a temperature sensor in the oil system for the car.&n= bsp; The  only sensor I could find was the thermostat in the cooler th= at will bypass the cooler when it is cold.  Nothing seems to be indica= ted if the oil is hot.  Only if the water is hot.

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2= 010 4:32 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircra= ft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: wa= ter temp probe

Bill,

Since you didn't direct your question to any specific= person, I'll tell you how I set up my engine monitoring system up.  I= measure temp and pressure of both the oil and water.  I also measure water level (float switch in the purge tank) a= s well as the return water temp back into the engine (after the r= adiator).  So, from this I can tell how well my exchangers are working= .  As an example, I normally see a 40* delta-T across the oil cooler.  If this drops, my temps go up and I need to land and= find out what's not right.  I also measure coolant pressure.&nbs= p; If pressure is low / high, I need to investigate. 

 

Is this information overload?  Maybe, but I woul= d rather have too much data than not enough.

 

Mark S.

 

 

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> = wrote:

Am I correct in my assumption that the engine only ha= s an oil pressure sensor and not an oil temperature sensor?  Is the on= ly engine temperature monitored by the coolant temperature sensor??? 

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:= flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Friday, January 08, 2= 010 1:04 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircra= ft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: wa= ter temp probe

= Ben, = you=92re right in that any one probe does not tell the whole story, but spe= cific to the Rotary if only one probe is provided/available then the input oil temperature is most important.  The oil flow diagr= ams show return oil from cooler is pumped through e-shaft and sprayed insid= e the rotors for their cooling.  Previous posts and literature state t= hat the rotor oil seals will be damaged by sustained oil temperature >210F.

= It is= also important to use similar instrumentation to other builders for direct= comparison from one installation to the next =85

= I onl= y measure return oil temperature myself; I=92d be interested to know what d= elta T=92s (oil) other builders are seeing.

= Jeff<= /span>

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of ben haas
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2= 010 9:17 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircra= ft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: wa= ter temp probe

 

I respectivly disagree on the oil temp = sender location. One can have a very efficient oil cooler that removes alot= of heat from the oil. Oil  'in' temps are important but,,,, You could possibly have a motor making alot of oil heat = and slowing cooking the motor over time and not really know it. Just like w= ith the water temp probe. One needs to know exactly what is happening in th= e motor in real time...  YMMV.

Ben Haas
www.haaspowerair.com



 

To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /a>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 06:18:39 -0600
From: msteitle@gmail.com
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe

Kevin,

 

I think you want to measure t= he temp of the coolant as it exits the engine.  That way you know= how close you are to your upper operating limit.  If you have a second input, you can measure the temps after the radiator.

 

Oil temps are just the opposite... meas= ure temps after oil has been through the cooler and is entering the engine.=

 

Mark S.&= nbsp;

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:52 AM, kevin = lane <n3773@comcast.net> wro= te:

in looking for a place t= o mount a water temp probe I realized my radiator has a drain plug fitting = on the bottom of one of the end tanks that could work.  that portion of the tank has cooled water about to retur= n to the pump.   does it matter if I monitor the before or after = radiator temps?  the engine sees both, right?   

same question as to the = oil temp probe.  the stock oil cooler has a large fitting [p= lug?] underneath of one end tank, not sure of its usage.  also have an extra plug in the oil pan [out the side] which might work [?]=   told that originally had a oil level sender unit in there. &nbs= p; kevin 

 

Hotmail: Powerful Free email with secur= ity by Microsoft. Get it now.


This message, and t= he documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may co= ntain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received t= his message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct o= ur internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.

 


This message, and the docum= ents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain pr= ivileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strict= ly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our = internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.
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