X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com ([74.125.92.26] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTP id 4069863 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:19:33 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.92.26; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so3866219qwb.25 for ; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:18:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=u7/u+CdGY8lkoarNyzsf2E9hJDuzPuNWnvInBrZpXwY=; b=YBKHVx7yoeeYy8rPkOvlTH7KH7NC1de9kiU7VvN1G+ajFdozNZb5S4aDV3PBfJrreY 1E8MLKHAcn6/ePbIvLZYgHaceosHhtC19Y287Sg8eyE8y+TxpI7FY9EGaltRtuJVPV0Q 6sIQiEzfB5lhIvccwpzdRQziizRx4++5MzQmY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=XFWcK13aCmzNn798pmI0aRzVhw/AEEzSg/RlddlLpmD5QFIKgQjCaxuysvQ7lUNxfN cuGn7IoM/HhKo7/RuvpZtUAP4XyvXf6PcJ2uKEPnqwaj81yn7P78Jlz/u02SU2CtIv7u vpkaVm5uCTYkj7FIMRo585TTt8I07gnCefnhg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.86.156 with SMTP id s28mr2261468qal.108.1263003537966; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:18:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 21:18:57 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f502050081711fc5 Message-ID: <1b4b137c1001081818q2ee3ac03w938cb427d6fc224e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f8996023b0897047cb1ed58 --00c09f8996023b0897047cb1ed58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 40 deg oil temp delta is typical if you oil cooler is working right. Wate= r temp delta is WAY less than that. Mass flow is much higher and the specific heat of the fluid is much higher. Tracy On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:37 PM, George Lendich wrote= : > Mark, > That is a great monitoring system, I would like to do the same thing as y= ou > have done one day. I'm not sure about how good the 40* delta-T is, I wil= l > let someone else comment of that, maybe Ed A. as he mentioned 80-100*F > Delta -T for water, perhaps oil is half of that . > George ( down under) > > Bill, > Since you didn't direct your question to any specific person, I'll tell y= ou > how I set up my engine monitoring system up. I measure temp and pressure= of > both the oil and water. I also measure water level (float switch in the > purge tank) as well as the return water temp back into the engine (after = the > radiator). So, from this I can tell how well my exchangers are working. = As > an example, I normally see a 40* delta-T across the oil cooler. If this > drops, my temps go up and I need to land and find out what's not right. = I > also measure coolant pressure. If pressure is low / high, I need > to investigate. > > Is this information overload? Maybe, but I would rather have too much da= ta > than not enough. > > Mark S. > > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: > >> Am I correct in my assumption that the engine only has an oil pressure >> sensor and not an oil temperature sensor? Is the only engine temperatur= e >> monitored by the coolant temperature sensor??? >> >> >> >> Bill B >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *= On >> Behalf Of *Jeff Whaley >> *Sent:* Friday, January 08, 2010 1:04 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe >> >> Ben, you=92re right in that any one probe does not tell the whole story,= but >> specific to the Rotary if only one probe is provided/available then the >> input oil temperature is most important. The oil flow diagrams show ret= urn >> oil from cooler is pumped through e-shaft and sprayed inside the rotors = for >> their cooling. Previous posts and literature state that the rotor oil s= eals >> will be damaged by sustained oil temperature >210F. >> >> It is also important to use similar instrumentation to other builders fo= r >> direct comparison from one installation to the next =85 >> >> I only measure return oil temperature myself; I=92d be interested to kno= w >> what delta T=92s (oil) other builders are seeing. >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *= On >> Behalf Of *ben haas >> *Sent:* Friday, January 08, 2010 9:17 AM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe >> >> >> >> I respectivly disagree on the oil temp sender location. One can have a >> very efficient oil cooler that removes alot of heat from the oil. Oil '= in' >> temps are important but,,,, You could possibly have a motor making alot = of >> oil heat and slowing cooking the motor over time and not really know it. >> Just like with the water temp probe. One needs to know exactly what is >> happening in the motor in real time... YMMV. >> >> Ben Haas >> www.haaspowerair.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net >> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 06:18:39 -0600 >> From: msteitle@gmail.com >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe >> >> Kevin, >> >> >> >> I think you want to measure the temp of the coolant as it exits the >> engine. That way you know how close you are to your upper operating lim= it. >> If you have a second input, you can measure the temps after the radiator= . >> >> >> >> Oil temps are just the opposite... measure temps after oil has been >> through the cooler and is entering the engine. >> >> >> >> Mark S. >> >> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:52 AM, kevin lane wrote: >> >> in looking for a place to mount a water temp probe I realized my radiato= r >> has a drain plug fitting on the bottom of one of the end tanks that coul= d >> work. that portion of the tank has cooled water about to return to the >> pump. does it matter if I monitor the before or after radiator temps? = the >> engine sees both, right? >> >> same question as to the oil temp probe. the stock oil cooler has a larg= e >> fitting [plug?] underneath of one end tank, not sure of its usage. also >> have an extra plug in the oil pan [out the side] which might work [?] t= old >> that originally had a oil level sender unit in there. kevin >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now. >> >> >> This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for th= e >> addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any >> unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received thi= s >> message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct ou= r >> internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. >> > > --00c09f8996023b0897047cb1ed58 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 40 deg oil temp delta is typical if you oil cooler is working right. =A0 Wa= ter temp delta is WAY less than that.=A0 Mass flow=A0 is much higher and th= e specific heat of the fluid is much higher.

Tracy=A0

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:37 PM, George Lendich <lendich@aanet.com.au> wrote= :
Mark,
That is a great monitoring system, I w= ould like to=20 do the same thing as you have done one day.=A0 I'm not sure about how g= ood=20 the 40* delta-T is, I will let someone else comment of that, maybe Ed A.=A0= =20 as he =A0mentioned 80-100*F Delta -T for water, perhaps oil is half of=20 that=A0.
George ( down under)
Bill,
Since you didn't direct your question to any specific person, I&= #39;ll tell=20 you how I set up my engine monitoring system up.=A0 I measure temp and=20 pressure of both the oil and water.=A0 I also measure water level (float= =20 switch in the purge tank) as well as the=A0return water=A0temp back into= =20 the engine (after the radiator).=A0 So, from this I can tell how well my= =20 exchangers are working.=A0 As an example, I normally see a 40*=A0delta-T= =20 across the oil cooler.=A0 If this drops, my temps go up and I need to lan= d=20 and find out what's not right.=A0 I also measure=A0coolant=20 pressure.=A0 If pressure=A0is=A0low / high, I need=20 to=A0investigate.=A0
=A0
Is this information overload?=A0 Maybe, but I would rather have too= =20 much=A0data than not enough.
=A0
Mark S.
=A0


On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry= <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>=20 wrote:

Am I correct in my assumption that the engine on= ly=20 has an oil pressure sensor and not an oil temperature sensor?=A0 Is the= =20 only engine temperature monitored by the coolant temperature=20 sensor???=A0

=A0

Bill B

=A0

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 1:04=20 PM
To: Rotary motor= s in=20 aircraft
Subject:= =20 [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe

Ben, you=92re=20 right in that any one probe does not tell the whole story, but specific= to=20 the Rotary if only one probe is provided/available then the input oil= =20 temperature is most important.=A0 The oil flow diagrams show return oil= =20 from cooler is pumped through e-shaft and sprayed inside the rotors for= =20 their cooling.=A0 Previous posts and literature state that the rotor oi= l=20 seals will be damaged by sustained oil temperature=20 >210F.

It is also=20 important to use similar instrumentation to other builders for direct= =20 comparison from one installation to the next =85

I only measure=20 return oil temperature myself; I=92d be interested to know what delta T= =92s=20 (oil) other builders are seeing.

Jeff

=A0

From:<= /font>=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of ben haas
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:17=20 AM
To: Rotary motor= s in=20 aircraft
Subject:= =20 [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe

=A0

I respectivly disagree on the=20 oil temp sender location. One can have a very efficient oil cooler that= =20 removes alot of heat from the oil. Oil=A0 'in' temps are import= ant=20 but,,,, You could possibly have a motor making alot of oil heat and slo= wing=20 cooking the motor over time and not really know it. Just like with the = water=20 temp probe. One needs to know exactly what is happening in the motor in= real=20 time...=A0 YMMV.

Ben Haas
www.haaspowerair.com



=A0

To:= flyrotary= @lancaironline.net
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010=20 06:18:39 -0600
From: msteitle@gmail.com
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp=20 probe

Kevin,=20

=A0

I=A0think you want=20 to=A0measure the temp of the coolant=A0as it exits the engine.=A0=20 That way you know how close you are to your upper operating limit.=A0 I= f=20 you have a second input, you can measure the temps after the=20 radiator.

=A0

Oil temps are just the=20 opposite... measure temps after oil has been through the cooler and is= =20 entering the engine.

=A0

Mar= k S.=A0=20

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:52=20 AM, kevin lane <n3773@comcast.net> wrote:

in looking f= or a place=20 to mount a water temp probe I realized my radiator has a drain plug fit= ting=20 on the bottom of one of the end tanks that could work.=A0 that portion = of=20 the tank has cooled water about to return to the pump.=A0=A0 does it=20 matter if I monitor the before or after radiator temps?=A0 the engine= =20 sees both, right?=A0=A0=A0

same questio= n as to=20 the oil temp=A0probe.=A0=A0the stock oil cooler has a large fitting=20 [plug?] underneath of one end tank, not sure of its usage.=A0 also have= =20 an extra plug in the oil pan [out the side] which might work [?]=A0 tol= d=20 that originally had a oil level sender unit in there.=A0=A0=20 kevin=A0

=A0

Hotmail: Powerful Free email=20 with security by Microsoft. Get it=20 now.


This=20 message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the=20 addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any= =20 unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received th= is=20 message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct o= ur=20 internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank=20 you.


<= /div>

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