X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTP id 4069715 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:38:01 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (mail.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.34]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87B46173972 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 07:37:20 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 9690FBEC01C for ; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 07:37:18 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <247B6959DD764C84BDAE3F985E0F77D0@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 09:37:20 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01CA910F.57198E30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100108-1, 01/08/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CA910F.57198E30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, That is a great monitoring system, I would like to do the same thing as = you have done one day. I'm not sure about how good the 40* delta-T is, = I will let someone else comment of that, maybe Ed A. as he mentioned = 80-100*F Delta -T for water, perhaps oil is half of that . George ( down under) Bill,=20 Since you didn't direct your question to any specific person, I'll = tell you how I set up my engine monitoring system up. I measure temp = and pressure of both the oil and water. I also measure water level = (float switch in the purge tank) as well as the return water temp back = into the engine (after the radiator). So, from this I can tell how well = my exchangers are working. As an example, I normally see a 40* delta-T = across the oil cooler. If this drops, my temps go up and I need to land = and find out what's not right. I also measure coolant pressure. If = pressure is low / high, I need to investigate. =20 Is this information overload? Maybe, but I would rather have too much = data than not enough. Mark S. =20 On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Am I correct in my assumption that the engine only has an oil = pressure sensor and not an oil temperature sensor? Is the only engine = temperature monitored by the coolant temperature sensor???=20 Bill B -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 1:04 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe Ben, you=92re right in that any one probe does not tell the whole = story, but specific to the Rotary if only one probe is = provided/available then the input oil temperature is most important. = The oil flow diagrams show return oil from cooler is pumped through = e-shaft and sprayed inside the rotors for their cooling. Previous posts = and literature state that the rotor oil seals will be damaged by = sustained oil temperature >210F. It is also important to use similar instrumentation to other = builders for direct comparison from one installation to the next =85=20 I only measure return oil temperature myself; I=92d be interested to = know what delta T=92s (oil) other builders are seeing. Jeff From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of ben haas Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:17 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe I respectivly disagree on the oil temp sender location. One can have = a very efficient oil cooler that removes alot of heat from the oil. Oil = 'in' temps are important but,,,, You could possibly have a motor making = alot of oil heat and slowing cooking the motor over time and not really = know it. Just like with the water temp probe. One needs to know exactly = what is happening in the motor in real time... YMMV. Ben Haas www.haaspowerair.com =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 06:18:39 -0600 From: msteitle@gmail.com Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe Kevin,=20 I think you want to measure the temp of the coolant as it exits the = engine. That way you know how close you are to your upper operating = limit. If you have a second input, you can measure the temps after the = radiator. Oil temps are just the opposite... measure temps after oil has been = through the cooler and is entering the engine. Mark S. =20 On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:52 AM, kevin lane = wrote: in looking for a place to mount a water temp probe I realized my = radiator has a drain plug fitting on the bottom of one of the end tanks = that could work. that portion of the tank has cooled water about to = return to the pump. does it matter if I monitor the before or after = radiator temps? the engine sees both, right? =20 same question as to the oil temp probe. the stock oil cooler has a = large fitting [plug?] underneath of one end tank, not sure of its usage. = also have an extra plug in the oil pan [out the side] which might work = [?] told that originally had a oil level sender unit in there. kevin = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now. This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only = for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential = information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you = have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so = that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the = original message. Thank you. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CA910F.57198E30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
That is a great monitoring system, I = would like to=20 do the same thing as you have done one day.  I'm not sure about how = good=20 the 40* delta-T is, I will let someone else comment of that, maybe Ed = A. =20 as he  mentioned 80-100*F Delta -T for water, perhaps oil is half = of=20 that .
George ( down under)
Bill,
Since you didn't direct your question to any specific person, = I'll tell=20 you how I set up my engine monitoring system up.  I measure temp = and=20 pressure of both the oil and water.  I also measure water level = (float=20 switch in the purge tank) as well as the return water temp = back into=20 the engine (after the radiator).  So, from this I can tell how = well my=20 exchangers are working.  As an example, I normally see a = 40* delta-T=20 across the oil cooler.  If this drops, my temps go up and I need = to land=20 and find out what's not right.  I also measure coolant=20 pressure.  If pressure is low / high, I need=20 to investigate. 
 
Is this information overload?  Maybe, but I would rather = have too=20 much data than not enough.
 
Mark S.
 


On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Bill = Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= =20 wrote:

Am I correct in my assumption that the = engine only=20 has an oil pressure sensor and not an oil temperature sensor?  = Is the=20 only engine temperature monitored by the coolant temperature=20 sensor??? 

 

Bill B

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff = Whaley
Sent: Friday, January 08, = 2010 1:04=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe

Ben, = you=92re=20 right in that any one probe does not tell the whole story, but = specific to=20 the Rotary if only one probe is provided/available then the input = oil=20 temperature is most important.  The oil flow diagrams show = return oil=20 from cooler is pumped through e-shaft and sprayed inside the rotors = for=20 their cooling.  Previous posts and literature state that the = rotor oil=20 seals will be damaged by sustained oil temperature=20 >210F.

It = is also=20 important to use similar instrumentation to other builders for = direct=20 comparison from one installation to the next =85

I = only measure=20 return oil temperature myself; I=92d be interested to know what = delta T=92s=20 (oil) other builders are seeing.

Jeff

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of ben = haas
Sent: Friday, January 08, = 2010 9:17=20 AM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe

 

I respectivly = disagree on the=20 oil temp sender location. One can have a very efficient oil cooler = that=20 removes alot of heat from the oil. Oil  'in' temps are = important=20 but,,,, You could possibly have a motor making alot of oil heat and = slowing=20 cooking the motor over time and not really know it. Just like with = the water=20 temp probe. One needs to know exactly what is happening in the motor = in real=20 time...  YMMV.

Ben = Haas
www.haaspowerair.com



 

To: = flyrotary@lancaironline.net
Date: Fri, 8 Jan = 2010=20 06:18:39 -0600
From: msteitle@gmail.com
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = water temp=20 probe

Kevin,=20

 

I think you = want=20 to measure the temp of the coolant as it exits the = engine. =20 That way you know how close you are to your upper operating = limit.  If=20 you have a second input, you can measure the temps after the=20 radiator.

 

Oil temps are just = the=20 opposite... measure temps after oil has been through the cooler and = is=20 entering the engine.

 

Mark = S. =20

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 = at 12:52=20 AM, kevin lane <n3773@comcast.net> wrote:

in looking = for a place=20 to mount a water temp probe I realized my radiator has a drain plug = fitting=20 on the bottom of one of the end tanks that could work.  that = portion of=20 the tank has cooled water about to return to the pump.   = does it=20 matter if I monitor the before or after radiator temps?  the = engine=20 sees both, right?   

same = question as to=20 the oil temp probe.  the stock oil cooler has a large = fitting=20 [plug?] underneath of one end tank, not sure of its usage.  = also have=20 an extra plug in the oil pan [out the side] which might work = [?]  told=20 that originally had a oil level sender unit in there.  =20 kevin 

 

Hotmail: Powerful = Free email=20 with security by Microsoft. Get it=20 now.


This=20 message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the = addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. = Any=20 unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received = this=20 message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may = correct our=20 internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank=20 = you.


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