X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bw0-f226.google.com ([209.85.218.226] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTP id 4069701 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:21:21 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.226; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by bwz26 with SMTP id 26so13348127bwz.27 for ; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:20:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=AJijk/ac/WSw9XEBIHIXC3eRFT2aVD5SLSSYKcdTkIU=; b=P5Vnb1e27339BYMWODIW4jfIuiDFX5KRc+GJuAyo2nknqSTHlrwDCTdSy3JBV2xdcx fvvAqLO7RZ71M370OFkdhEUt36zSzeJtsusEf5HnIzns0HZ7OT3uYboq9hs0MAB7zEaJ 2k6TZbWD+BBHeygrZLvUcSBDX0t2VVTKPZQck= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=C1AnYQ/azN1AdXB65I7B2hkzD6khq5EuRZzfOywZ2hOGH+S7pCGAahHPXHXoz/RVyu Kbl19tykY1HjrqZYPpRni5nV91nCbJL9mPouIFTSLVPbYLb/A+A6SgEKkosI99bj+pvF 5gZJiq1U61vIF1Y/UtV8h1D8ZVMenOUi2tKCQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.34.198 with SMTP id m6mr2150166bkd.57.1262992845111; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:20:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:20:45 -0600 Message-ID: <5cf132c1001081520o290804b8n9e64ef0f13728c67@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555748ee304ca047caf6fdb --00032555748ee304ca047caf6fdb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, I'll let someone with more experience than I to comment on the maximum safe temps for the rotary. Although I have seen higher in the past (when still trying to resolve the cooling issues), I personally don't like seeing over 220* on the oil and 200 on the water. I'm running TES o-rings, so ymmv. Mark On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Bill Bradburry wr= ote: > No, that is great, Mark. > > BUT I didn=92t ask the question correctly. There has been a lot of > discussion on the list about temperature red lines. Searching thru the > Mazda stuff I have, I found that the normal operating temperature of the > Renesis tops out at 240 degrees=85.much higher than most or all of us use= for > our personal red line. > > The jpeg from Jeff caused me to try and find the normal operating > temperature spec for the oil on the Renesis. I couldn=92t find one and t= hen > after looking at the drawing again, I don=92t see a temperature sensor in= the > oil system for the car. The only sensor I could find was the thermostat= in > the cooler that will bypass the cooler when it is cold. Nothing seems to= be > indicated if the oil is hot. Only if the water is hot. > > > > Bill B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Mark Steitle > *Sent:* Friday, January 08, 2010 4:32 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe > > Bill, > > Since you didn't direct your question to any specific person, I'll tell y= ou > how I set up my engine monitoring system up. I measure temp and pressure= of > both the oil and water. I also measure water level (float switch in the > purge tank) as well as the return water temp back into the engine (after = the > radiator). So, from this I can tell how well my exchangers are working. = As > an example, I normally see a 40* delta-T across the oil cooler. If this > drops, my temps go up and I need to land and find out what's not right. = I > also measure coolant pressure. If pressure is low / high, I need > to investigate. > > > > Is this information overload? Maybe, but I would rather have too much da= ta > than not enough. > > > > Mark S. > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry > wrote: > > Am I correct in my assumption that the engine only has an oil pressure > sensor and not an oil temperature sensor? Is the only engine temperature > monitored by the coolant temperature sensor??? > > > > Bill B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Jeff Whaley > *Sent:* Friday, January 08, 2010 1:04 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe > > Ben, you=92re right in that any one probe does not tell the whole story, = but > specific to the Rotary if only one probe is provided/available then the > input oil temperature is most important. The oil flow diagrams show retu= rn > oil from cooler is pumped through e-shaft and sprayed inside the rotors f= or > their cooling. Previous posts and literature state that the rotor oil se= als > will be damaged by sustained oil temperature >210F. > > It is also important to use similar instrumentation to other builders for > direct comparison from one installation to the next =85 > > I only measure return oil temperature myself; I=92d be interested to know > what delta T=92s (oil) other builders are seeing. > > Jeff > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *ben haas > *Sent:* Friday, January 08, 2010 9:17 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe > > > > I respectivly disagree on the oil temp sender location. One can have a ve= ry > efficient oil cooler that removes alot of heat from the oil. Oil 'in' te= mps > are important but,,,, You could possibly have a motor making alot of oil > heat and slowing cooking the motor over time and not really know it. Just > like with the water temp probe. One needs to know exactly what is happeni= ng > in the motor in real time... YMMV. > > Ben Haas > www.haaspowerair.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 06:18:39 -0600 > From: msteitle@gmail.com > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe > > Kevin, > > > > I think you want to measure the temp of the coolant as it exits the > engine. That way you know how close you are to your upper operating limi= t. > If you have a second input, you can measure the temps after the radiator. > > > > Oil temps are just the opposite... measure temps after oil has been throu= gh > the cooler and is entering the engine. > > > > Mark S. > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:52 AM, kevin lane wrote: > > in looking for a place to mount a water temp probe I realized my radiator > has a drain plug fitting on the bottom of one of the end tanks that could > work. that portion of the tank has cooled water about to return to the > pump. does it matter if I monitor the before or after radiator temps? = the > engine sees both, right? > > same question as to the oil temp probe. the stock oil cooler has a large > fitting [plug?] underneath of one end tank, not sure of its usage. also > have an extra plug in the oil pan [out the side] which might work [?] to= ld > that originally had a oil level sender unit in there. kevin > > > ------------------------------ > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now. > > > This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the > addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any > unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our > internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. > > > --00032555748ee304ca047caf6fdb Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
=A0
I'll let someone=A0with more experience than I to=A0comment on the= maximum safe temps for the rotary.=A0 Although I have seen higher in the p= ast (when still trying to resolve the cooling issues), I personally don'= ;t like seeing over 220* on the oil and 200 on the water.=A0=A0I'm runn= ing=A0TES o-rings, so ymmv.=A0
=A0
Mark

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Bill Bradburry <= span dir=3D"ltr"><bbradburry= @bellsouth.net> wrote:

No, that is great, Mark.

BUT I didn=92t ask the question correctly.=A0 There h= as been a lot of discussion on the list about temperature red lines.=A0 Sea= rching thru the Mazda stuff I have, I found that the normal operating tempe= rature of the Renesis tops out at 240 degrees=85.much higher than most or a= ll of us use for our personal red line.

The jpeg from Jeff caused me to try and find the norm= al operating temperature spec for the oil on the Renesis.=A0 I couldn=92t f= ind one and then after looking at the drawing again, I don=92t see a temper= ature sensor in the oil system for the car.=A0 The =A0only sensor I could f= ind was the thermostat in the cooler that will bypass the cooler when it is= cold.=A0 Nothing seems to be indicated if the oil is hot.=A0 Only if the w= ater is hot.

=A0

Bill B

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [ma= ilto:flyro= tary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf = Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2= 010 4:32 PM
To: Rotary m= otors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe

Bill,

Since you didn't direct your question to any spec= ific person, I'll tell you how I set up my engine monitoring system up.= =A0 I measure temp and pressure of both the oil and water.=A0 I also measur= e water level (float switch in the purge tank) as well as the=A0return wate= r=A0temp back into the engine (after the radiator).=A0 So, from this I can = tell how well my exchangers are working.=A0 As an example, I normally see a= 40*=A0delta-T across the oil cooler.=A0 If this drops, my temps go up and = I need to land and find out what's not right.=A0 I also measure=A0coola= nt pressure.=A0 If pressure=A0is=A0low / high, I need to=A0investigate.=A0 =

=A0

Is this information overload?=A0 Maybe, but I would r= ather have too much=A0data than not enough.

=A0

Mark S.

=A0

=A0

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bell= south.net> wrote:

Am I correct in my assumption that the engine only ha= s an oil pressure sensor and not an oil temperature sensor?=A0 Is the only = engine temperature monitored by the coolant temperature sensor???=A0=

=A0

Bill B

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [ma= ilto:flyro= tary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf = Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2= 010 1:04 PM
To: Rotary m= otors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe

= Ben, = you=92re right in that any one probe does not tell the whole story, but spe= cific to the Rotary if only one probe is provided/available then the input = oil temperature is most important.=A0 The oil flow diagrams show return oil= from cooler is pumped through e-shaft and sprayed inside the rotors for th= eir cooling.=A0 Previous posts and literature state that the rotor oil seal= s will be damaged by sustained oil temperature >210F.

= It is= also important to use similar instrumentation to other builders for direct= comparison from one installation to the next =85

= I onl= y measure return oil temperature myself; I=92d be interested to know what d= elta T=92s (oil) other builders are seeing.

= Jeff<= /span>

=A0

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of ben haas
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2= 010 9:17 AM
To: Rotary m= otors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water temp probe

=A0

I respectivly disagree on the oil temp = sender location. One can have a very efficient oil cooler that removes alot= of heat from the oil. Oil=A0 'in' temps are important but,,,, You = could possibly have a motor making alot of oil heat and slowing cooking the= motor over time and not really know it. Just like with the water temp prob= e. One needs to know exactly what is happening in the motor in real time...= =A0 YMMV.

Ben Haas
www.haaspowerair.com



=A0

To: flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 06:18:39 -0600
From: msteitle@gmail.com
Subject: [FlyRotary] R= e: water temp probe

Kevin,

=A0

I=A0think you want to=A0measure the tem= p of the coolant=A0as it exits the engine.=A0 That way you know how close y= ou are to your upper operating limit.=A0 If you have a second input, you ca= n measure the temps after the radiator.

=A0

Oil temps are just the opposite... meas= ure temps after oil has been through the cooler and is entering the engine.=

=A0

Mark S.= =A0

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:52 AM, kevin = lane <n3773@comca= st.net> wrote:

in looking for a= place to mount a water temp probe I realized my radiator has a drain plug = fitting on the bottom of one of the end tanks that could work.=A0 that port= ion of the tank has cooled water about to return to the pump.=A0=A0 does it= matter if I monitor the before or after radiator temps?=A0 the engine sees= both, right?=A0=A0=A0

same question as= to the oil temp=A0probe.=A0=A0the stock oil cooler has a large fitting [pl= ug?] underneath of one end tank, not sure of its usage.=A0 also have an ext= ra plug in the oil pan [out the side] which might work [?]=A0 told that ori= ginally had a oil level sender unit in there.=A0=A0 kevin=A0 =

=A0

Hotmail: Powerful Free email with secur= ity by Microsoft. Get it now.


This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for = the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any u= nauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this me= ssage in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our int= ernal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.

=A0

<= br> --00032555748ee304ca047caf6fdb--