X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTP id 4067503 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:23:06 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=JC79GYtlG08A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=vX6ptVIUxHfCvrp3Mo4A:9 a=wcNC4Z0SBpLv1oeL3YcA:7 a=i8ZW4uRZApjM02XzO1GkIs-DGmEA:4 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=UERlA8wyQ3BbpHWL:21 a=qEH_2vcz9_tkvBVc:21 a=Y2VNeNrzAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=TW66zc2HAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=HQ31llbKAAAA:8 a=8ZBA8RrjuZEB-dyz8lIA:9 a=QPGtDSngmphpYyE4qwsA:7 a=W-OAR0BTe3rLsqpZ4Ko_qt9IqJgA:4 a=YjyC7JUcfdibML2e:21 a=DW2EO_DZE-l5szBb:21 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.191.186.236 Received: from [75.191.186.236] ([75.191.186.236:4026] helo=computername) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 52/6F-19471-657354B4; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 01:22:31 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" Message-ID: <52.6F.19471.657354B4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Waste Heat was [Fly Rotary] Re: Air Flow Question Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:22:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01CA8F0D.FF6A64F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcqPIekLR47JjtE8Qn25+CXRJOF9igAEVkDg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CA8F0D.FF6A64F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, George, unfortunately, approx =BD of the total energy in our fuel = goes out the exhaust - a turbocharger can capture a very small part of that energy and drive additional air into the engine to which you can = additional fuel producing even more heat (and some additional work =96 driving the = prop). =20 Just think if you could recover 20% of that exhaust energy and make it = turn the prop. That would add 20% of (47880/2) BTU/Min =3D 0.2 * 23940 =3D = 4788 BTU/min more work energy =3D 112 HP more + 270 =3D 382 HP not a bad = increase. If only. =20 The turbocompound approach does indeed capture some of that energy =96 = but, I=92ve only seen it used on pretty massive and large engines. . The = figures I have seen have been around 6% energy recapture, which if you have a = 2000 hp engine and 8000 HP of energy is going out the exhaust then 0.06 * 8000 = =3D 492 HP which can make it worthwhile. Its not simply, light nor cheap and = while it has been successfully used , it seems to fade in and out of favor. = But, with the advent of the turbo jet engine =96 the turbo compound seems to = have faded into history as far as use in aircraft engines. =20 I would like to see it succeed on the rotary but, I=92m not holding my = breath. I saw some photos back about 3-4 years ago of a project to try it on the Rotary but never heard if it ever ran or the results. I presume if it = had been a success, we would have heard about it. =20 If it were practical and cost effective, I think the automotive industry would have jumped on it with both feet. But, who knows perhaps in the future. =20 In the meantime, I=92ll just wait for the 16X. =20 =20 Ed =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 5:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Waste Heat was [Fly Rotary] Re: Air Flow = Question =20 Ed, I see you have allowed for the exhaust etc. in your calculations- I shouldn't rush in until I read everything fully. George ( down under) =20 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CA8F0D.FF6A64F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, George, unfortunately, approx = =BD of the total energy in our fuel goes out the exhaust=A0 - a turbocharger = can capture a very small part of that energy and drive additional air into the = engine to which you can additional fuel producing even more heat (and some = additional work – driving the prop).

 

=A0Just think if you could recover = 20% of that exhaust energy and make it turn the prop.=A0 That would add 20% of = (47880/2) BTU/Min =3D 0.2 * 23940 =3D =A04788 BTU/min more work energy =3D 112 HP = more + 270 =3D =A0382 HP not a bad increase.=A0 If =A0only.

 

The turbocompound approach does = indeed capture some of that energy =A0– but, I’ve only seen it used = on pretty massive and large engines. .=A0 The figures I have seen have been = around 6% energy recapture, =A0which if you have a 2000 hp engine and 8000 HP = of energy is going out the exhaust then 0.06 * 8000 =3D 492 HP which can make it = worthwhile.=A0 Its not simply, light nor cheap and while it has been successfully used = , it seems to fade in and out of favor.=A0 But, with the advent of the turbo = jet engine – the turbo compound seems to have faded into history as = far as use in aircraft engines.

 

I would like to see it succeed on = the rotary but, I’m not holding my breath. I saw some photos back = about 3-4 years ago of a project to try it on the Rotary but never heard if it = ever ran or the results.=A0 I presume if it had been a success, we would have = heard about it.

 

If it were practical and cost = effective, I think the automotive industry would have jumped on it with both feet.=A0 = But, who knows perhaps in the future.

 

In the meantime, I’ll just = wait for the 16X.

 

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich
Sent: Wednesday, January = 06, 2010 5:44 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Waste Heat was [Fly Rotary] Re: Air Flow Question

 

Ed,

I see you have allowed for the exhaust etc. in your calculations- I shouldn't rush in until I read everything = fully.

George ( down under)

 



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