X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao102.cox.net ([68.230.241.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTP id 4066035 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:25:16 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.44; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100106032441.JKUQ8308.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:24:41 -0500 Received: from willsPC ([68.105.91.112]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id S3Qg1d0052RT1vG043QheF; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:24:41 -0500 X-VR-Score: 0.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=hBBxVKrpT8NIO1i2+E6jIs4z/JDusIBXnpwMe9ND0ls= c=1 sm=1 a=VRYOJ9gpqIQA:10 a=lTdc4wscJffengO6xjBlCw==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=-E3lNnqLYrJW7GtbgFgA:9 a=Gh8kWgMtpWl0WclCOWAA:7 a=gSxFl9-dB6OnUMoCWp6WGef7ABgA:4 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=yOtB_3p9HrBupYmy:21 a=UZ7mIpARtXqVZwDe:21 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=Si-czduEwNkyaj9MwUUA:9 a=hDu7hvx3KgE-aFuh8IoA:7 a=mov_Vs_ilOdu9-xM4k3ymnWXc4AA:4 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=lTdc4wscJffengO6xjBlCw==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <477C1A86488D4048A9F8EC10944F043B@willsPC> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] first start check list Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 19:24:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01CA8E3C.BA279A60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01CA8E3C.BA279A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Al, Your last sentence summarizes my reply. Other than impatience, what's to = be gained by firing this thing up? Sounds like there are numerous known = issues still to be resolved. My recommendation is to exercise some = patience. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW From: Al Gietzen=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:27 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] first start check list Kevin; Curious, isn=E2=80=99t it? We all start our vehicles every day with no = load, and never think a thing about. The first start of my 20B on the = dyno was with no load, and the first start on the plane was without a = prop. It idled fine at about 1200, and I could crack the throttle a bit = and control the speed without a problem. So it depends. Thing is; it=E2=80=99s bad to take risks if you don=E2=80=99t fully = appreciate the risk you=E2=80=99re taking. If you don=E2=80=99t have an = oversize throttle plate, and have positive control on throttle position, = know your carb (or FI system), etc; go for it. Just recognize that with = even small throttle opening there is potential for the engine to rev up = very quickly. As far as cooling; it might be just about as easy to rig a radiator and = blower for cooling as the questionable setup of a 50 ga drum. With no = load and low rpm it will generate very little heat; a household fan = blowing on the radiator would likely be sufficient. And when you do get = a load on it, go to your friendly furnace repair service a get a = centrifugal blower for nothing. Of course you=E2=80=99ll also have to = cool the oil. And for sure don=E2=80=99t run without proper = instrumentation. All that said =E2=80=93 is there some reason to be in a big hurry to get = this thing running? FWIW; Al G -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:52 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first start check list Kevin, I certainly would not start the engine without a load on it. Things = don=E2=80=99t always go as planned and more than one person has = scattered parts or burnt bearings by having the engine rev to = destruction without a prop (or some kind of load). Make sure you have = oil to the bearings. I would take off the oil line going back into the = engine and crank engine until I see oil coming out before I would even = think of starting it. Folks have reversed the Goes inna and Comes Outta = connections on a remote oil filter =E2=80=93 and no oil flows. With an idle setting of 1600 rpm =E2=80=93 if I take my prop off, the = engine =E2=80=9Cidles=E2=80=9D at 5000 + rpm. Crack the throttle plate = just a bit more and you easily may have 8000 rpm (or much more) Just not worth it in my opinion. Yes, if all goes as planned you may have not problem =E2=80=93 but, just = bump the throttle cable or find the rev limiter not set up properly and = you could ruin your engine. Good Luck Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of kevin lane Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:59 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] first start check list I am just about ready to try my first attempt at starting my renesis. = for my first phase, at least, I've chosen to use a side draft Weber carb = and DIS ignition system, which Lynn designed using an MSD ign box for = the primaries and 2 Chrysler elec ign's for the trailing plugs. I = thought I'd ask before introducing gasoline to my "creation" of any = steps or checks I need to do first. the engine and mount are bolted to = a mockup plywood firewall held up with steel legs. the psru is = installed, as well as the radiators [oil & water]. exhaust is just = headers for now [pointing down]. when I crank it over all the plugs are = firing [especially the MSD powered ones, which fire multiple times below = 1000rpm]. the carb is brand new, with whatever jets they come with. = haven't designed a leaning capability yet. 1. I need to add a oil pressure gauge right away. I'll need water temp = after it gets running for any length of time. put mineral oil in for = initial break-in [turrentine engine, never run] 2. oh yeah, get it out of the basement! guess airport best for making = lots of noise 3. fire extinguisher 4. got the 6k rpm limiter plugged in to the MSD 5. fill with water 6. fabricate some remote throttle cable? or do you just stand there and = manipulate it by hand? guess I fine tune timing after it is running with a strobe light? I've = marked the firing points on the flexwheel. the pick-ups can be adjusted = some if needed. I assume I don't need a prop or club at this point, right? thought a small gravity fed fuel tank would work at first. should I buy new plugs? the used ones that came with the engine seem to = spark OK. =20 could I run this early on with the water pump attached to say a 50 = gallon tank of cold water rather than trying to get it radiator cooled? kevin [it won't be loud, will it? =E2=98=BA] __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01CA8E3C.BA279A60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Al,
 
Your last sentence summarizes my reply. Other = than=20 impatience, what's to be gained by firing this thing up? Sounds like = there are=20 numerous known issues still to be resolved. My recommendation is to = exercise some patience.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW

From: Al Gietzen
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:27 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] first start check = list

Kevin;

 

Curious, = isn=E2=80=99t=20 it?  We all start our vehicles every day with no load, and never = think a=20 thing about.  The first start of my 20B on the dyno was with no = load, and=20 the first start on the plane was without a prop.  It idled fine at = about=20 1200, and I could crack the throttle a bit and control the speed without = a=20 problem.  So it depends.

Thing is; = it=E2=80=99s bad to=20 take risks if you don=E2=80=99t fully appreciate the risk you=E2=80=99re = taking.  If you=20 don=E2=80=99t have an oversize throttle plate, and have positive control = on throttle=20 position, know your carb (or FI system), etc; go for it.  Just = recognize=20 that with even small throttle opening there is potential for the engine = to rev=20 up very quickly.

 

As far as = cooling; it=20 might be just about as easy to rig a radiator and blower for cooling as = the=20 questionable setup of a 50 ga drum.  With no load and low rpm it = will=20 generate very little heat; a household fan blowing on the radiator would = likely=20 be sufficient.  And when you do get a load on it, go to your = friendly=20 furnace repair service a get a centrifugal blower for nothing.  Of = course=20 you=E2=80=99ll also have to cool the oil.  And for sure = don=E2=80=99t run without proper=20 instrumentation.

 

All that = said =E2=80=93 is=20 there some reason to be in a big hurry to get this thing=20 running?

 

FWIW;

Al=20 G

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed = Anderson
Sent:
Tuesday, January=20 05, 2010 8:52=20 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first = start check=20 list

 

Kevin,

 

I=20 certainly would not start the engine without a load on it.  Things = don=E2=80=99t=20 always go as planned and more than one person has scattered parts or = burnt=20 bearings by having the engine rev to destruction without a prop (or some = kind of=20 load).  Make sure you have oil to the bearings.  I would take = off the=20 oil line going back into the engine and crank engine until I see oil = coming out=20 before I would even think of starting it.  Folks have reversed the = Goes=20 inna and Comes Outta connections on a remote oil filter =E2=80=93 and no = oil=20 flows.

 

With=20 an idle setting of 1600 rpm =E2=80=93 if I take my prop off, the engine = =E2=80=9Cidles=E2=80=9D at 5000=20 + rpm.  Crack the throttle plate just a bit more and you easily may = have=20 8000 rpm (or much more)

Just=20 not worth it in my opinion.

 

Yes,=20 if all goes as planned you may have not problem =E2=80=93 but, just bump = the throttle=20 cable or find the rev limiter not set up properly and you could ruin = your=20 engine.

 

Good=20 Luck

 

Ed

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW=20 Rotary Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html<= /P>

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm


From: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of kevin = lane
Sent:
Monday, January=20 04, 2010 11:59 = PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] first start = check=20 list

 

I am just about = ready to=20 try my first attempt at starting my renesis.  for my first phase, = at least,=20 I've chosen to use a side draft Weber carb and DIS ignition system, = which=20 Lynn = designed using=20 an MSD ign box for the primaries and 2 Chrysler elec ign's for the = trailing=20 plugs.  I thought I'd ask before introducing gasoline to my = "creation" of=20 any steps or checks I need to do first.  the engine and mount are = bolted to=20 a mockup plywood firewall held up with steel legs.  the psru is = installed,=20 as well as the radiators [oil & water].  exhaust is just = headers for=20 now [pointing down].  when I crank it over all the plugs are firing = [especially the MSD powered ones, which fire multiple times below=20 1000rpm].  the carb is brand new, with whatever jets they come = with. =20 haven't designed a leaning capability yet.

1. I need to add = a oil=20 pressure gauge right away.  I'll need water temp after it gets = running for=20 any length of time. put mineral oil in for initial break-in [turrentine = engine,=20 never run]

2. oh yeah, get = it out of=20 the basement!  guess airport best for making lots of=20 noise

3. fire=20 extinguisher

4. got the 6k = rpm limiter=20 plugged in to the MSD

5. fill with=20 water

6. fabricate = some remote=20 throttle cable? or do you just stand there and manipulate it by=20 hand?

 

guess I fine = tune timing=20 after it is running with a strobe light?  I've marked the firing = points on=20 the flexwheel.  the pick-ups can be adjusted some if=20 needed.

I assume I don't = need a=20 prop or club at this point, right?

thought a=20 small gravity fed fuel tank would work at = first.

should I buy new = plugs?  the used ones that came with the engine seem to spark=20 OK.  

could I run this = early on=20 with the water pump attached to say a 50 gallon tank of cold water = rather than=20 trying to get it radiator cooled?

 kevin [it = won't be=20 loud, will it? =E2=98=BA]



__________=20 Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature = database 3267=20 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32=20 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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