X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.48] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTP id 4065810 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 20:59:26 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.48; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by QMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id S1rK1d0090lTkoCA51ysdy; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 01:58:52 +0000 Received: from sz0081.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.137]) by OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id S1yr1d00E2xV6SL8Q1yrmd; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 01:58:51 +0000 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 01:58:51 +0000 (UTC) From: hoursaway1@comcast.net To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <99432416.7908251262743131725.JavaMail.root@sz0081a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] first start check list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_419227_1553727648.1262743131724" X-Originating-IP: [76.20.183.210] X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.19_GA_3172.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - IE6 (Win)/5.0.19_GA_3172.RHEL5_64) ------=_Part_419227_1553727648.1262743131724 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0=C2=A0 Al ;=C2=A0 =C2=A0I=C2=A0 suppose there are some exceptions but= most manual trans cars have a 40# flywheel driving an input shaft geared t= o a counter shaft, oil bathed in 80x90 wt. or=C2=A0 ATF lube, =C2=A0auto tr= ans cars have a 30#=C2=A0 fluid filled torque converter driving a pressure = pump drive-shaft , they need a load to keep things tight, a Lyc eng . with = crankshaft counterbalance will come apart without a prop at low RPM, one of= the reasons for slow smooth throttle movements.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 David R. Cook=C2=A0 RV6A Rotary.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Al Gietzen " < ALVentures @cox.net>=20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" < flyrotary @ lancaironline .net>=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2010 6:27:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern=20 Subject: [ FlyRotary ] first start check list=20 Kevin;=20 Curious, isn =E2=80=99t it?=C2=A0 We all start our vehicles every day with = no load, and never think a thing about.=C2=A0 The first start of my 20B on = the dyno was with no load, and the first start on the plane was without a p= rop.=C2=A0 It idled fine at about 1200, and I could crack the throttle a bi= t and control the speed without a problem.=C2=A0 So it depends.=20 Thing is; it=E2=80=99s bad to take risks if you don=E2=80=99t fully appreci= ate the risk you=E2=80=99re taking.=C2=A0 If you don=E2=80=99t have an over= size throttle plate, and have positive control on throttle position, know y= our carb (or FI system), etc; go for it. =C2=A0Just recognize that with eve= n small throttle opening there is potential for the engine to rev up very q= uickly.=20 As far as cooling; it might be just about as easy to rig a radiator and blo= wer for cooling as the questionable setup of a 50 ga drum.=C2=A0 With no lo= ad and low rpm it will generate very little heat; a household fan blowing o= n the radiator would likely be sufficient.=C2=A0 And when you do get a load= on it, go to your friendly furnace repair service a get a centrifugal blow= er for nothing.=C2=A0 Of course you=E2=80=99ll also have to cool the oil.= =C2=A0 And for sure don=E2=80=99t run without proper instrumentation.=20 All that said =E2=80=93 is there some reason to be in a big hurry to get th= is thing running?=20 FWIW;=20 Al G=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto: flyrotary @ lancaironline .net] On= Behalf Of Ed Anderson=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:52 AM=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [ FlyRotary ] Re: first start check list=20 Kevin,=20 I certainly would not start the engine without a load on it.=C2=A0 Things d= on=E2=80=99t always go as planned and more than one person has scattered pa= rts or burnt bearings by having the engine rev to destruction without a pro= p (or some kind of load).=C2=A0 Make sure you have oil to the bearings.=C2= =A0 I would take off the oil line going back into the engine and crank engi= ne until I see oil coming out before I would even think of starting it.=C2= =A0 Folks have reversed the Goes inna and Comes Outta connections on a remo= te oil filter =E2=80=93 and no oil flows.=20 With an idle setting of 1600 rpm =E2=80=93 if I take my prop off, the engin= e =E2=80=9Cidles=E2=80=9D at 5000 + rpm.=C2=A0 Crack the throttle plate jus= t a bit more and you easily may have 8000 rpm (or much more)=20 Just not worth it in my opinion.=20 Yes, if all goes as planned you may have not problem =E2=80=93 but, just bu= mp the throttle cable or find the rev limiter not set up properly and you c= ould ruin your engine.=20 Good Luck=20 Ed=20 Ed Anderson=20 Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered=20 Matthews, NC=20 eanderson@carolina.rr.com=20 http://www.andersonee.com=20 http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html=20 http://www. flyrotary .com/=20 http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW=20 http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm=20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto: flyrotary @ lancaironline .net] On= Behalf Of kevin lane=20 Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:59 PM=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [ FlyRotary ] first start check list=20 I am just about ready to try my first attempt at starting my renesis.=C2=A0= for my first phase, at least, I've chosen to use a side draft Weber carb a= nd DIS ignition system, which Lynn designed using an MSD ign box for the pr= imaries and 2 Chrysler elec ign's for the trailing plugs.=C2=A0 I thought I= 'd ask before introducing gasoline to my "creation" of any steps or checks = I need to do first.=C2=A0 the engine and mount are bolted to a mockup plywo= od firewall held up with steel legs.=C2=A0 the psru is installed, as well a= s the radiators [oil & water].=C2=A0 exhaust is just headers for now [point= ing down].=C2=A0 when I crank it over all the plugs are firing [especially = the MSD powered ones, which fire multiple times below 1000rpm].=C2=A0 the c= arb is brand new, with whatever jets they come with.=C2=A0 haven't designed= a leaning capability yet.=20 1. I need to add a oil pressure gauge right away.=C2=A0 I'll need water tem= p after it gets running for any length of time. put mineral oil in for init= ial break-in [turrentine engine, never run]=20 2. oh yeah, get it out of the basement!=C2=A0 guess airport best for making= lots of noise=20 3. fire extinguisher=20 4. got the 6k rpm limiter plugged in to the MSD=20 5. fill with water=20 6. fabricate some remote throttle cable? or do you just stand there and man= ipulate it by hand?=20 guess I fine tune timing after it is running with a strobe light?=C2=A0 I'v= e marked the firing points on the flexwheel.=C2=A0 the pick-ups can be adju= sted some if needed.=20 I assume I don't need a prop or club at this point, right?=20 thought a small=C2=A0gravity fed fuel tank would work at first.=20 should I buy new plugs?=C2=A0 the used ones that came with the engine seem = to spark OK.=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 could I run this early on with the water pump attached to say a 50 gallon t= ank of cold water rather than trying to get it radiator cooled?=20 =C2=A0kevin [it won't be loud, will it? =E2=98=BA ]=20 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 3267 (20080714) __________=20 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.=20 http://www.eset.com ------=_Part_419227_1553727648.1262743131724 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'> &nb= sp; Al ;   I  suppose there are some exceptions but most man= ual trans cars have a 40# flywheel driving an input shaft geared to a count= er shaft, oil bathed in 80x90 wt. or ATF lube,  auto trans cars h= ave a 30#  fluid filled torque converter driving a pressure pump drive= -shaft, they need a load to keep things tight, a Lyc eng. with crankshaft c= ounterbalance will come apart without a prop at low RPM, one of the reasons= for slow smooth throttle movements.      &nb= sp;  David R. Cook  RV6A Rotary.
----- Original Message -----<= BR>From: "Al Gietzen" <ALVentures@cox.net>
To: "Rotary motors in a= ircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2= 010 6:27:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [FlyRotary] first s= tart check list

Kevin;

 = ;

Curious, isn=E2=80= =99t it?  We all start our vehicles every day with no load, and never = think a thing about.  The first start of my 20B on the dyno was with n= o load, and the first start on the plane was without a prop.  It idled= fine at about 1200, and I could crack the throttle a bit and control the s= peed without a problem.  So it depends.

Thing is; it=E2=80= =99s bad to take risks if you don=E2=80=99t fully appreciate the risk you= =E2=80=99re taking.  If you don=E2=80=99t have an oversize throttle pl= ate, and have positive control on throttle position, know your carb (or FI = system), etc; go for it.  Just recognize that with even small throttle= opening there is potential for the engine to rev up very quickly.

 = ;

As far as cooling; = it might be just about as easy to rig a radiator and blower for cooling as = the questionable setup of a 50 ga drum.  With no load and low rpm it w= ill generate very little heat; a household fan blowing on the radiator woul= d likely be sufficient.  And when you do get a load on it, go to your = friendly furnace repair service a get a centrifugal blower for nothing.&nbs= p; Of course you=E2=80=99ll also have to cool the oil.  And for sure d= on=E2=80=99t run without proper instrumentation.

 = ;

All that said =E2= =80=93 is there some reason to be in a big hurry to get this thing running?=

 = ;

FWIW;=

Al G<= /P>

 = ;

-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: Rotary m= otors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, January = 05, 2010 8:52 AM
To: Rotary motors i= n aircraft
Subject: [Fly= Rotary] Re: first start check list

 

Kevin,

 

I certainly would not start the engine without a load on it.  T= hings don=E2=80=99t always go as planned and more than one person has scatt= ered parts or burnt bearings by having the engine rev to destruction withou= t a prop (or some kind of load).  Make sure you have oil to the bearin= gs.  I would take off the oil line going back into the engine and cran= k engine until I see oil coming out before I would even think of starting i= t.  Folks have reversed the Goes inna and Comes Outta connections on a= remote oil filter =E2=80=93 and no oil flows.

 

With an idle setting of 1600 rpm =E2=80=93 if I take my prop off, th= e engine =E2=80=9Cidles=E2=80=9D at 5000 + rpm.  Crack the throttle pl= ate just a bit more and you easily may have 8000 rpm (or much more)<= /FONT>

Just not worth it in my opinion.

 

Yes, if all goes as planned you may have not problem =E2=80=93 but, = just bump the throttle cable or find the rev limiter not set up properly an= d you could ruin your engine.

 

Good Luck

 

Ed

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrot= ary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of kevin lane
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:59 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] first start check list

 

= I am just about ready to try my first attempt at starting my renesis. = for my first phase, at least, I've chosen to use a side draft Weber carb a= nd DIS ignition system, which Lynn designed using= an MSD ign box for the primaries and 2 Chrysler elec ign's for the trailin= g plugs.  I thought I'd ask before introducing gasoline to my "creatio= n" of any steps or checks I need to do first.  the engine and mount ar= e bolted to a mockup plywood firewall held up with steel legs.  the ps= ru is installed, as well as the radiators [oil & water].  exhaust = is just headers for now [pointing down].  when I crank it over all the= plugs are firing [especially the MSD powered ones, which fire multiple tim= es below 1000rpm].  the carb is brand new, with whatever jets they com= e with.  haven't designed a leaning capability yet.

<= /DIV>

= 1. I need to add a oil pressure gauge right away.  I'll need water tem= p after it gets running for any length of time. put mineral oil in for init= ial break-in [turrentine engine, never run]

= 2. oh yeah, get it out of the basement!  guess airport best for making= lots of noise

= 3. fire extinguisher

= 4. got the 6k rpm limiter plugged in to the MSD

= 5. fill with water

= 6. fabricate some remote throttle cable? or do you just stand there and man= ipulate it by hand?

 

= guess I fine tune timing after it is running with a strobe light?  I'v= e marked the firing points on the flexwheel.  the pick-ups can be adju= sted some if needed.

= I assume I don't need a prop or club at this point, right?

= thought a small gravity fed fuel tank would work at first.

= should I buy new plugs?  the used ones that came with the engine seem = to spark OK.  

= could I run this early on with the water pump attached to say a 50 gallon t= ank of cold water rather than trying to get it radiator cooled?

=  kevin [it won't be loud, will it? =E2=98=BA]



__________ Informati= on from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (200= 80714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com<= /A>

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