X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao103.cox.net ([68.230.241.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTP id 4065723 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:27:12 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.43; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100105232637.BSIQ26337.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 18:26:37 -0500 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.128.205]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id RzSd1d00J4S1t5C04zSdBU; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:26:37 -0500 X-VR-Score: 0.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=hBBxVKrpT8NIO1i2+E6jIs4z/JDusIBXnpwMe9ND0ls= c=1 sm=1 a=Vegc0WxVmH5BHtpNDyThtA==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=-E3lNnqLYrJW7GtbgFgA:9 a=-38nkpd1BTAp8eF6FEoA:7 a=9jJZCIBv6zjEqASgjunzaLGQjiAA:4 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=2DpJfwGD9yIRuHWd:21 a=MPh7U3jzkTHF50IB:21 a=zC9kNxF48ehYNzHy8boA:9 a=zMgg_WT9p-ddR7N7lHoA:7 a=DIp0wkf4CD1BiBhfEfDYmbjBc0YA:4 a=Q3srMw5Q3g6zAiM9:21 a=nx9cmEjfGLUWsq_Q:21 a=Vegc0WxVmH5BHtpNDyThtA==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: first start check list Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:27:46 -0800 Message-ID: <70AD897807584F349D1929253AEF771F@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA8E1B.A1DAC250" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6856 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AcqOJ4IJlzW/lLP4TqaC5AJZ4bU/wwAM/bsg In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA8E1B.A1DAC250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kevin; =20 Curious, isn=E2=80=99t it? We all start our vehicles every day with no = load, and never think a thing about. The first start of my 20B on the = dyno was with no load, and the first start on the plane was without a = prop. It idled fine at about 1200, and I could crack the throttle a bit = and control the speed without a problem. So it depends. Thing is; it=E2=80=99s bad to take risks if you don=E2=80=99t fully = appreciate the risk you=E2=80=99re taking. If you don=E2=80=99t have an = oversize throttle plate, and have positive control on throttle position, = know your carb (or FI system), etc; go for it. Just recognize that with = even small throttle opening there is potential for the engine to rev up = very quickly. =20 As far as cooling; it might be just about as easy to rig a radiator and = blower for cooling as the questionable setup of a 50 ga drum. With no = load and low rpm it will generate very little heat; a household fan = blowing on the radiator would likely be sufficient. And when you do get = a load on it, go to your friendly furnace repair service a get a = centrifugal blower for nothing. Of course you=E2=80=99ll also have to = cool the oil. And for sure don=E2=80=99t run without proper = instrumentation. =20 All that said =E2=80=93 is there some reason to be in a big hurry to get = this thing running? =20 FWIW; Al G =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:52 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first start check list =20 Kevin, =20 I certainly would not start the engine without a load on it. Things = don=E2=80=99t always go as planned and more than one person has = scattered parts or burnt bearings by having the engine rev to = destruction without a prop (or some kind of load). Make sure you have = oil to the bearings. I would take off the oil line going back into the = engine and crank engine until I see oil coming out before I would even = think of starting it. Folks have reversed the Goes inna and Comes Outta = connections on a remote oil filter =E2=80=93 and no oil flows. =20 With an idle setting of 1600 rpm =E2=80=93 if I take my prop off, the = engine =E2=80=9Cidles=E2=80=9D at 5000 + rpm. Crack the throttle plate = just a bit more and you easily may have 8000 rpm (or much more) Just not worth it in my opinion. =20 Yes, if all goes as planned you may have not problem =E2=80=93 but, just = bump the throttle cable or find the rev limiter not set up properly and = you could ruin your engine. =20 Good Luck =20 Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com = http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ = http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm = =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of kevin lane Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:59 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] first start check list =20 I am just about ready to try my first attempt at starting my renesis. = for my first phase, at least, I've chosen to use a side draft Weber carb = and DIS ignition system, which Lynn designed using an MSD ign box for = the primaries and 2 Chrysler elec ign's for the trailing plugs. I = thought I'd ask before introducing gasoline to my "creation" of any = steps or checks I need to do first. the engine and mount are bolted to = a mockup plywood firewall held up with steel legs. the psru is = installed, as well as the radiators [oil & water]. exhaust is just = headers for now [pointing down]. when I crank it over all the plugs are = firing [especially the MSD powered ones, which fire multiple times below = 1000rpm]. the carb is brand new, with whatever jets they come with. = haven't designed a leaning capability yet. 1. I need to add a oil pressure gauge right away. I'll need water temp = after it gets running for any length of time. put mineral oil in for = initial break-in [turrentine engine, never run] 2. oh yeah, get it out of the basement! guess airport best for making = lots of noise 3. fire extinguisher 4. got the 6k rpm limiter plugged in to the MSD 5. fill with water 6. fabricate some remote throttle cable? or do you just stand there and = manipulate it by hand? =20 guess I fine tune timing after it is running with a strobe light? I've = marked the firing points on the flexwheel. the pick-ups can be adjusted = some if needed. I assume I don't need a prop or club at this point, right? thought a small gravity fed fuel tank would work at first. should I buy new plugs? the used ones that came with the engine seem to = spark OK. =20 could I run this early on with the water pump attached to say a 50 = gallon tank of cold water rather than trying to get it radiator cooled? kevin [it won't be loud, will it? =E2=98=BA] __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA8E1B.A1DAC250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kevin;

 

Curious, isn=E2=80=99t it?=C2=A0 = We all start our vehicles every day with no load, and never think a thing about.=C2=A0 = The first start of my 20B on the dyno was with no load, and the first start on the = plane was without a prop.=C2=A0 It idled fine at about 1200, and I could crack = the throttle a bit and control the speed without a problem.=C2=A0 So it = depends.

Thing is; it=E2=80=99s bad to = take risks if you don=E2=80=99t fully appreciate the risk you=E2=80=99re taking.=C2=A0 If you = don=E2=80=99t have an oversize throttle plate, and have positive control on throttle position, know = your carb (or FI system), etc; go for it. =C2=A0Just recognize that with even = small throttle opening there is potential for the engine to rev up very = quickly.

 

As far as cooling; it might be = just about as easy to rig a radiator and blower for cooling as the = questionable setup of a 50 ga drum.=C2=A0 With no load and low rpm it will generate = very little heat; a household fan blowing on the radiator would likely be = sufficient.=C2=A0 And when you do get a load on it, go to your friendly furnace repair service = a get a centrifugal blower for nothing.=C2=A0 Of course you=E2=80=99ll also = have to cool the oil.=C2=A0 And for sure don=E2=80=99t run without proper = instrumentation.

 

All that said =E2=80=93 is there = some reason to be in a big hurry to get this thing running?

 

FWIW;

Al G

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:52 = AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = first start check list

 

Kevin,

 

I certainly = would not start the engine without a load on it.  Things don=E2=80=99t always = go as planned and more than one person has scattered parts or burnt bearings by having = the engine rev to destruction without a prop (or some kind of load).  = Make sure you have oil to the bearings.  I would take off the oil line = going back into the engine and crank engine until I see oil coming out before = I would even think of starting it.  Folks have reversed the Goes inna and = Comes Outta connections on a remote oil filter =E2=80=93 and no oil = flows.

 

With an idle = setting of 1600 rpm =E2=80=93 if I take my prop off, the engine = =E2=80=9Cidles=E2=80=9D at 5000 + rpm.  Crack the throttle plate just a bit more and you easily may have 8000 rpm (or = much more)

Just not worth = it in my opinion.

 

Yes, if all goes = as planned you may have not problem =E2=80=93 but, just bump the throttle = cable or find the rev limiter not set up properly and you could ruin your = engine.

 

Good = Luck

 

Ed<= /p>

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of kevin lane
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:59 = PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = first start check list

 

I am just about = ready to try my first attempt at starting my renesis.  for my first phase, = at least, I've chosen to use a side draft Weber carb and DIS ignition = system, which Lynn = designed using an MSD ign box for the primaries and 2 Chrysler elec ign's for the = trailing plugs.  I thought I'd ask before introducing gasoline to my "creation" of any steps or checks I need to do first.  = the engine and mount are bolted to a mockup plywood firewall held up with = steel legs.  the psru is installed, as well as the radiators [oil & = water].  exhaust is just headers for now [pointing down].  when I crank it = over all the plugs are firing [especially the MSD powered ones, which fire = multiple times below 1000rpm].  the carb is brand new, with whatever jets = they come with.  haven't designed a leaning capability yet.

1. I need to add = a oil pressure gauge right away.  I'll need water temp after it gets = running for any length of time. put mineral oil in for initial break-in [turrentine = engine, never run]

2. oh yeah, get = it out of the basement!  guess airport best for making lots of = noise

3. fire = extinguisher

4. got the 6k rpm = limiter plugged in to the MSD

5. fill with = water

6. fabricate some = remote throttle cable? or do you just stand there and manipulate it by = hand?

 

guess I fine tune = timing after it is running with a strobe light?  I've marked the firing = points on the flexwheel.  the pick-ups can be adjusted some if = needed.

I assume I don't = need a prop or club at this point, right?

thought a = small gravity fed fuel tank would work at first.

should I buy new = plugs?  the used ones that came with the engine seem to spark = OK.  

could I run this = early on with the water pump attached to say a 50 gallon tank of cold water = rather than trying to get it radiator cooled?

 kevin [it = won't be loud, will it? =E2=98=BA]



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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