X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4028616 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:58:47 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=MQq8AkIs29gA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=5Z28ctDeKTlu3SkZjmUA:9 a=LSYsGOqPzAWOvS1_KOIA:7 a=hdURFLDmkgnEWOKD5Y1fohYK4rsA:4 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=LIlgw9C83y0vWqhB:21 a=pOhyoxOow9NfQxbw:21 a=Y2VNeNrzAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=TW66zc2HAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=HQ31llbKAAAA:8 a=XI6-5H7_hfpwBlJ-XOoA:9 a=-Gy6jiNL2AfBGMjpgcIA:7 a=8QXPIH6Njmgt_vX0EQ2-9YOpqcsA:4 a=26fyfeBQN8Ey0z_i:21 a=ewH6YSbtX9ok5iBM:21 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.191.186.236 Received: from [75.191.186.236] ([75.191.186.236:4664] helo=computername) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 7E/9C-01550-2333C2B4; Sat, 19 Dec 2009 01:58:11 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" Message-ID: <7E.9C.01550.2333C2B4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:58:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01CA8024.CFD744D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcqATESV52ThgIM4SRaLmNTpiSDTZQAAcgtQ In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CA8024.CFD744D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, it is Greg but it's disguised as a "D". If you are using outlook express what you do is Type a letter "D". Then highlight the "D" and got to format on the menu bar and select fonts. The select the font type SYMBOL and click OK and vola the D gets transformed. D = D Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:46 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo Hey Ed' How come that there triangle thingy ain't on my keyboard??........(:-) Greg Ward Lancair 20B N178RG, struggling to get airborne ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 5:24 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo I think while there are lot of Nifty looking gadgets out there, you need to keep in mind that what may work well for a piston engine in cooling oil may not for the rotary. The basic reason is the rotary dumps approx 1/3 of its total waste heat load (not counting exhaust heat) through the oil. In fact, you can calculate the approx BTU you must get rid of through the oil. A 13B turning 6500 rpm with an 12.65 (best power) air fuel ratio will be flowing approx 16.1 gallons per hour. This equates to needing to get rid of approx 2650 BTU/MIN of waste heat through the oil cooler. Now using the old heat transfer equation Q = BTU, M = mass flow and Dt = temp difference, cp (air = 0.25) Q = M*Dt*cp and assuming you heat up the air so that it exits 100 deg F hotter than it went into the cooler, then solving for the air mass M required = Q/ Dt*cp = 2650 /100*0.25 = 106 lbms/min or 106 pounds of air per minute. A cubic foot of air at sea level = approx 0.0765 lb/cubic foot. So to get 106 lbms/min you need to have 106/0.0765 = 1385 CFM of air flow through the oil cooler. Now that is a sizeable amount of air required just for the oil cooler at a modest power output of 160 HP. My point, is that, before you go spending your money and adding weight and complexity to your installation, sit down and determine what each element will do for you and whether it is really worth the money and weight. My person opinion is that it is hard to beat the efficiency of a well position oil cooler with adequate airflow through it. But, just my opinion. Certainly there are cases where a small cooling assist might make the difference and these things might make the difference. In some cases, space precludes the idea solution and in that case oil/water heat exchangers and other methods are called for. But, if you are in the planning stages, my suggestion is strive to get the right sized oil cooler positioned with good air flow. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of william singer Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:51 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo Modine makes such coolers. My Ford Thunderbirds (89 to95) have them. wiliam singer ----- Original Message ----- From: sboese To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo Our 1992 Honda Accord EX Wagon has a oil to water heat exchanger that is sandwiched between the oil filter and the engine block. It is about 2" thick, the same diameter as the filter, and mounts with a longer hollow stud than would be used to mount the filter directly to the block. I have no idea of its capacity. Steve Boese -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Thomas Mann Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:03 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo ..does anyone know of an oil filter mount that includes a heat exchanger? T Mann __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CA8024.CFD744D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Actually, it is Greg but it’s disguised as a “D”.

 

 If you are using outlook = express what you do is Type a letter “D”.  Then highlight the “D” and got to format on the menu bar and select = fonts.  The select the font type SYMBOL and click OK and vola  the D gets transformed. 

 

D =3D D<= font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward
Sent: Friday, December = 18, 2009 8:46 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo

 

Hey = Ed'

How come = that there triangle thingy ain't on my = keyboard??........(:-)

Greg = Ward

Lancair = 20B N178RG, struggling to get airborne

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Ed Anderson

Sent: Friday, = December 18, 2009 5:24 PM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo

 

I think while there are lot of = Nifty looking gadgets out there, you need to keep in mind that what may work = well for a piston engine in cooling oil may not for the rotary.  The basic = reason is the rotary dumps approx 1/3 of its total waste heat load (not = counting exhaust heat) through the oil.  In fact, you can calculate the = approx BTU you must get rid of through the oil.

 

A 13B turning 6500 rpm with an = 12.65 (best power) air fuel ratio will be flowing approx 16.1 gallons per = hour.  This equates to needing to get rid of approx  2650 BTU/MIN of waste heat  through the oil cooler.  Now using the old heat transfer  equation  Q =3D BTU, M =3D mass flow and Dt =3D temp = difference, cp (air =3D 0.25)

Q =3D M*Dt*cp  and = assuming you heat up the air so that it exits 100 deg F hotter than it went into = the cooler, then solving for the air mass M required =3D  Q/ = Dt*cp  =3D = 2650 /100*0.25 =3D 106 lbms/min or 106 pounds of air per = minute.

 

A cubic foot of air at sea level = =3D approx 0.0765 lb/cubic foot.  So to get 106 lbms/min you need to have = 106/0.0765

=3D 1385 CFM of air flow through = the oil cooler.  Now that is a sizeable amount of air required just for the = oil cooler at a modest power output of 160 HP.  =

 

My point, is that, before you go = spending your money and adding weight and complexity to your installation, sit = down and determine what each element will do for you and whether it is really = worth the money and weight.

 

My person opinion is that it is = hard to beat the efficiency of a well position oil cooler with adequate airflow = through it.

 

But, just my opinion.  = Certainly there are cases where a small cooling  assist might make the = difference and these things might make the difference.  In some cases, space precludes the idea solution and in that case oil/water heat exchangers = and other methods are called for.  

 

But, if you are in the planning = stages, my suggestion is strive to get the right sized oil cooler positioned with = good air flow.

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of william singer
Sent: Friday, December = 18, 2009 4:51 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo

 

Modine makes such coolers.  My Ford Thunderbirds = (89 to95) have them.  wiliam singer

----- Original Message ----- =

From: sboese =

Sent: Friday, = December 18, 2009 10:26 AM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo

 

Our 1992 Honda Accord EX Wagon has = a oil to water heat exchanger that is sandwiched between the oil filter and = the engine block.  It is about 2” thick, the same diameter as the filter, and mounts with a longer hollow stud than would be used to mount = the filter directly to the block.  I have no idea of its = capacity.

 

Steve = Boese

 

 

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Thomas Mann
Sent: Friday, December = 18, 2009 9:03 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Radiator/Oil Cooler Combo

 

….= does anyone know of an oil filter mount that = includes a heat exchanger?

 

T Mann



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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