X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.65.186] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with SMTP id 4003379 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 04 Dec 2009 23:20:49 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.65.186; envelope-from=JLuckey@pacbell.net Received: (qmail 78235 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2009 04:20:14 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:In-Reply-To:X-MimeOLE; b=gtp/ncJoLVMfsCMxiyLieK264qsJXc6gB6TJTyubdcxYqkgHnP1kGfEAssA4kkTVf6UlJEKsN3x0q930l1mcAltJsXjQm6feGp9f28zrSHJ92Gb3gjkPTLGFxZJMVruYudKylZhOJGRLZjD72qefHcWatni5sB7U+GzVUC1lhak= ; Received: from adsl-99-129-25-96.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net (JLuckey@99.129.25.96 with login) by smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 04 Dec 2009 20:20:13 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: Rlj_3EGswBCwtPCKshxPrOwNc_mKhod146WmwQ8HoqE- X-YMail-OSG: vhzve3AVM1mgpTGxeYMLgEWFnf6D4LbjsMlmcm9T5jmuixDxCVBqFgUOm4Z1vWBvF3xh_k2BfSPCnBH5.wcvhQplz92pwEgCqa.NSs5PlgJmKpCoXsZXM9Xqeynw7WuLAdxkpT3fJUm7eLCbdlTyQxljc1vabdXF769drNSTBUhYAkZiRomlqZL3_SJM4xOIypYqXHTC56wTP0wPA1Wvv..glGpxBC7ynssXLsTn66nYNAL4GawvWRJlb2oLG1wnM3pvQif4JJXqM8ZPVssLkyjxjpJCjzzrvMRu6RwwNothpPXMVkXt7vZo_GjPXxcaPn_rgVnrl8au5JMWH9VkXOFJLFe3qwtYfsDOdieLsBxaNxLT7JKqgdi_JcpuUEZDnFrByIbEaCjR9rqaifhzZQ.6UflJPNw3zrMo0KJmHqrCoRaQE1o17hg2yT2b4y3YWhfI X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Jeff Luckey" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Primer in AC/DC Electricity - Wire Types Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:20:09 -0800 Message-ID: <000601ca7562$3b4828b0$6701a8c0@dcshq1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA751F.2D24E8B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acp1NR34u+bS+gNZS/+1Ku/xYS28ogAK8Q1Q In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA751F.2D24E8B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I read thru Greg's paper and found it very interesting. He recommends Teflon wire as opposed to Tefzel wire. I'm wondering: what are the main differences between the two types of insulation. I remember reading something about Teflon being softer or less durable - but I don't remember the details. Are there any A&P/EE's out there who want to tackle this question? (mere mortals can also feel free to respond as well ;) _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 14:57 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Primer in AC/DC Electricity George, He is probably not talking to folks who install an electrically dependant alternative engine. If you just forget the problems that might arise getting Tracy's controllers, etc, and the 12V auto starter to work on 24V, you still have to accept the fact that that "big 24V battery" can fail. If is does and you don't have a second battery, it will get very quiet in the cockpit until the screaming starts. Also don't forget that the only way you can get a 24V battery is to tie two 12V batteries together. If you go with one 24V battery, you have the same battery weight plus the weight of redundant busses. If you go with two batteries, you now have 4 times the weight of one 12V battery. If you try to mix the systems so you have 24V and 12V, you have a nightmare. The only real advantage seems to me to be wire weight (smaller wire for 24V). I am pretty sure that I ate more weight for last nights dinner than the entire wireing system in my plane :>) If you really want to save weight in your plane, go on a diet! (I don't want to hear that you are 7 feet tall and weigh 120 lbs! :>)) Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 3:45 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Primer in AC/DC Electricity Kelly, Being electronically challenged I had a quick look. It says 24 volts is better for aircraft use eliminating the need for extra batteries and alternator, I'm wondering why builders collectively don't already go that way. Are there complications or additional expenses to be considered or are auto conversions typically locked in to a 12 volt system for one reason or another - perhaps just the alternator. George ( down under) Group, Some of you may have already seen this and to others this may be knowledge that you carry around in your head and use everyday but to someone like me whose schooling in AC/DC (Navy) electricity was 50 plus years ago and also something I do not use everyday the following link has refreshed my old brain..............Hope some of the group finds it useful.............. http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/0903_aircraft_wiring.pdf -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA751F.2D24E8B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I read thru Greg’s paper and = found it very interesting.  He recommends Teflon wire as opposed to Tefzel = wire.

 

I’m wondering: what are the = main differences between the two types of insulation. I remember reading = something about Teflon being softer or less durable – but I don’t = remember the details. 

 

Are there any A&P/EE’s = out there who want to tackle this question? (mere mortals can also feel free to = respond as well ;)

 

 

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Friday, December = 04, 2009 14:57
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Primer in AC/DC Electricity

 

George,

He is probably not talking to folks who install an electrically dependant alternative engine.  If you just forget the problems that = might arise getting Tracy’s controllers, etc, and the 12V auto starter to work on 24V, you still = have to accept the fact that that “big 24V battery” can fail.  = If is does and you don’t have a second battery, it will get very quiet = in the cockpit until the screaming starts.  Also don’t forget that = the only way you can get a 24V battery is to tie two 12V batteries = together.  If you go with one 24V battery, you have the same battery weight plus the = weight of redundant busses.  If you go with two batteries, you now have 4 = times the weight of one 12V battery.  If you try to mix the systems so = you have 24V and 12V, you have a nightmare.

The only real advantage seems to me to be wire weight (smaller = wire for 24V).  I am pretty sure that I ate more weight for last nights = dinner than the entire wireing system in my plane  = :>)

 

If you really want to save weight in your plane, go on a = diet!  (I don’t want to hear that you are 7 feet tall and weigh 120 = lbs!  :>))

 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich
Sent: Friday, December = 04, 2009 3:45 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Primer in AC/DC Electricity

Kelly,

Being electronically challenged I had a quick look. = It says 24 volts is better for aircraft use eliminating the need for extra = batteries and alternator, I'm wondering why builders collectively don't already go = that way. Are there complications or additional expenses to be considered or = are auto conversions typically locked in to a 12 volt system for one reason = or another - perhaps just the alternator.

George ( down under)

Group,

         Some of you may = have already seen this and to others this may be knowledge that you = carry

around in your head and use everyday but to someone like me = whose schooling in AC/DC (Navy) 

electricity was 50 plus years ago and also something I do not = use everyday the following link has

refreshed my old brain..............Hope some of the group finds = it useful..............

 

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

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