X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao106.cox.net ([68.230.241.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3894509 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:59:41 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.40; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20091021225904.WNRI21192.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:59:04 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.133.78]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id vaz51c0031hf1Cg04az5Ui; Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:59:05 -0400 X-VR-Score: -120.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=5j5aDtVyF2MA:10 a=N8B9JuSIAAAA:8 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=DWQPcCLQbFgk9sGoLTwA:9 a=Cde9Ag6bs_DU4_UJG_sA:7 a=ZN-IjWhjF5IZ6w7MSeRaUdSYND0A:4 a=si9q_4b84H0A:10 a=B9r_5jZAT2bVZvdchJkA:9 a=Qzk78fC2XGV7cKN2-cwA:7 a=A3aE1MhcHFuAR40v-HiJsCKfMTwA:4 X-CM-Score: 0.00 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: off subject - RV spin characteristics Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:59:53 -0800 Message-ID: <135C764967D74DBF93B3A163BB1F7A0B@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01CA5267.871B68B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6856 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AcpSg8TVq81CL4k2Q863m3+sB48bmgAJmZsg In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01CA5267.871B68B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a man of TALL confidence! =20 Anyone want to come along and hold the camera? =20 Ah-h-h; maybe not. Al =20 =20 Fun Stuff.=20 =20 I have pretty well explored the spin characteristics of my RV-6. Every = RV is different. You never really got one going in that video, not even a = full rotation best I could tell. Mine are different depending on whether I = spin toward the normally heavy wing, or the light wing. They are steeper = toward the heavy wing and also steeper with a pax. Much better toward the = lighter wing - makes for a nice flat spin. I have not tried aileron in the direction of spin - it is fast enough without it. =20 Gradually approach the stall in level flight. Some slight rudder and aileron to partly compensate for the heavy wing. At stall buffet, = throttle to idle, stick full aft and full rudder. At first it is steep pitch = down and bobble like what you show. After about 2 turns it flattens out and = the rate of turn increases. After about 4-6 turns it is fully developed and = the centrifugal force is quite noticeable, turn rate seems about 1.5 seconds = per rotation, pitch down is about 20 deg. and I am loosing about 400 feet = per rotation (the first couple turns and last couple turns it is more than that). At about 6-8 turns I get oil pressure and fuel pressure low = alarms from the gas and oil all being flung outboard away from the pickups. = That is the farthest I take it. =20 It takes me 3-5 turns to get out of a fully developed spin (before the = spin develops, it is nearly instant). Start with opposite rudder and stick = to neutral, I have to forcibly hold the stick in the neutral position. As = the rotation slows and starts to reverse direction I need to smartly but not = too fast apply forward stick. Too fast, and the elevator stalls and mushes. Too slow and I have missed the window of opportunity and the spin = reverses direction. I can help by easing the rudder a little when the rotation = is slow. The Idea is to get the rudder and elevator flying again, then get = the nose down while flying strait. It is sort of a feel thing, but it is a little scary, disorienting, and the trees are getting bigger and engine alarms are going off. I did quite a few spins working up to this point. = It was a lot of practice getting used to the feel of the airplane and how = it responds and getting comfortable with the sights and sounds. =20 Once that elevator catches, it pitches down and out. I hold the pitch = down a couple seconds because there is not power from the engine yet and I = want to keep it at idle while the oil system re-pressurises.=20 =20 Probably not really smart, but a whole lot of fun. =20 =20 Sorry I don't have any video. Anyone want to come along and hold the camera? --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:13 AM, kevin lane wrote: one day I video recorded what happens in my RV-6A when I attempt to stall/spin. with the stick held full back and neutral, rudders neutral, power off, you can see the ride I get. it is actually a lot more bouncy = and shaking than the video portrays. I would never do this with say, my = wife, on board. eventually the left wing drops a lot, speed picks up and the plane dives and pulls up, ready to start this routine all over again. = at this point I give full right rudder to initiate a spin, recovering = several thousand feet below the 5000' starting altitude. I have tried the = "flying leaf" maneuvers [only rudder corrections to a stall] before, and again, never get into a full stall. =20 note - RV spin recovery requires neutral or forward stick along with opposite rudder. this is not like the T-craft I learned to fly in. = pushing the stick in the direction of the spin will really wind it up. don't do this! Van himself told me that! [afterwards] stick to 1 or 2 = revolutions[ not 6], that's all Vans has ever tested. kevin =20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DUtz0dRyg5mE =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01CA5267.871B68B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is a man of TALL = confidence!

 

Anyone want to come along and hold the camera?

 

Ah-h-h; maybe = not.

Al

 

 

Fun Stuff. 

 

I have pretty well explored the spin = characteristics of my RV-6.  Every RV is different.  You never really got one = going in that video, not even a full rotation best I could tell.  Mine = are different depending on whether I spin toward the normally heavy wing, or = the light wing.  They are steeper toward the heavy wing and also = steeper with a pax.  Much better toward the lighter wing - makes for a nice flat spin.  I have not tried aileron in the direction of spin - it = is fast enough without it.

 

Gradually approach the stall in level = flight.  Some slight rudder and aileron to partly compensate for the heavy = wing.  At stall buffet, throttle to idle, stick full aft and full = rudder.  At first it is steep pitch down and bobble like what you show.  = After about 2 turns it flattens out and the rate of turn increases.  = After about 4-6 turns it is fully developed and the centrifugal force is quite noticeable, turn rate seems about 1.5 seconds per = rotation, pitch down is about 20 deg. and I am loosing about 400 feet per rotation (the = first couple turns and last couple turns it is more than that).   At = about 6-8 turns I get oil pressure and fuel pressure low alarms from = the gas and oil all being flung outboard away from the pickups.  That = is the farthest I take it.

 

It takes me 3-5 turns to get out of a = fully developed spin (before the spin develops, it is nearly instant).  = Start with opposite rudder and stick to neutral, I have to forcibly hold = the stick in the neutral position.  As the rotation slows and starts to = reverse direction I need to smartly but not too fast apply forward = stick.  Too fast, and the elevator stalls and mushes.  Too slow and I have = missed the window of opportunity and the spin reverses direction.  I can = help by easing the rudder a little when the rotation is slow.  The Idea is = to get the rudder and elevator flying again, then get the nose down while = flying strait. It is sort of a feel thing, but it is a little scary, disorienting, and the trees are getting bigger and engine alarms are = going off.  I did quite a few spins working up to this point.  It = was a lot of practice getting used to the feel of the airplane and how it responds = and getting comfortable with the sights and sounds.

 

Once that elevator catches, it pitches down = and out.  I hold the pitch down a couple seconds because there is not = power from the engine yet and I want to keep it at idle while the oil system re-pressurises.

 

Probably not really smart, but a whole lot of fun. 

 

Sorry I don't have any video.  Anyone = want to come along and hold the camera?


--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:13 AM, kevin lane = <n3773@comcast.net> = wrote:

one day I video = recorded what happens in my RV-6A when I attempt to stall/spin.  with the = stick held full back and neutral, rudders neutral, power off, you can see the = ride I get.  it is actually a lot more bouncy and shaking than the = video portrays.  I would never do this with say, my wife, on board.  eventually the left wing drops a lot, speed picks up and the plane dives = and pulls up, ready to start this routine all over again.  at this = point I give full right rudder to initiate a spin, recovering several thousand = feet below the 5000' starting altitude.  I have tried the "flying leaf" maneuvers [only rudder corrections to a stall] before, and = again, never get into a full stall.   

 note - RV = spin recovery requires neutral or forward stick along with opposite = rudder.  this is not like the T-craft I learned to fly in.  pushing the = stick in the direction of the spin will really wind it up.  don't do = this!  Van himself told me that! [afterwards]   stick to 1 or 2 revolutions[ not 6], that's all Vans has ever tested.    =  kevin

 



 

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