X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3894508 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:59:38 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B66A0173961 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:58:59 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id EB70BBEC00D for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:58:52 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <2420F032D7914DEDAAF19B2FE631AD4C@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: off subject - RV spin characteristics Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:58:54 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01CA52F5.E1CBDEA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 091021-0, 10/21/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CA52F5.E1CBDEA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed,=20 Nothing like a good spin, I love'em, no fear at all - however not all = Cessna are certified for spinning, so I found out, Oops! George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: off subject - RV spin characteristics Sound terrible exciting, Dave. I found that even spinning a Cessna 150 = was more thrilling than I was interested in. So, I'll stick to my engine = out dead-stick landings - easier on the heart (if not the seat cushions = {:>)). =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of David Leonard Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:21 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: off subject - RV spin characteristics =20 Fun Stuff.=20 =20 I have pretty well explored the spin characteristics of my RV-6. = Every RV is different. You never really got one going in that video, = not even a full rotation best I could tell. Mine are different = depending on whether I spin toward the normally heavy wing, or the light = wing. They are steeper toward the heavy wing and also steeper with a = pax. Much better toward the lighter wing - makes for a nice flat spin. = I have not tried aileron in the direction of spin - it is fast enough = without it. =20 Gradually approach the stall in level flight. Some slight rudder and = aileron to partly compensate for the heavy wing. At stall buffet, = throttle to idle, stick full aft and full rudder. At first it is steep = pitch down and bobble like what you show. After about 2 turns it = flattens out and the rate of turn increases. After about 4-6 turns it = is fully developed and the centrifugal force is quite noticeable, turn = rate seems about 1.5 seconds per rotation, pitch down is about 20 deg. = and I am loosing about 400 feet per rotation (the first couple turns and = last couple turns it is more than that). At about 6-8 turns I get oil = pressure and fuel pressure low alarms from the gas and oil all being = flung outboard away from the pickups. That is the farthest I take it. =20 It takes me 3-5 turns to get out of a fully developed spin (before the = spin develops, it is nearly instant). Start with opposite rudder and = stick to neutral, I have to forcibly hold the stick in the neutral = position. As the rotation slows and starts to reverse direction I need = to smartly but not too fast apply forward stick. Too fast, and the = elevator stalls and mushes. Too slow and I have missed the window of = opportunity and the spin reverses direction. I can help by easing the = rudder a little when the rotation is slow. The Idea is to get the = rudder and elevator flying again, then get the nose down while flying = strait. It is sort of a feel thing, but it is a little scary, = disorienting, and the trees are getting bigger and engine alarms are = going off. I did quite a few spins working up to this point. It was a = lot of practice getting used to the feel of the airplane and how it = responds and getting comfortable with the sights and sounds. =20 Once that elevator catches, it pitches down and out. I hold the pitch = down a couple seconds because there is not power from the engine yet and = I want to keep it at idle while the oil system re-pressurises.=20 =20 Probably not really smart, but a whole lot of fun. =20 =20 Sorry I don't have any video. Anyone want to come along and hold the = camera? --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:13 AM, kevin lane = wrote: one day I video recorded what happens in my RV-6A when I attempt to = stall/spin. with the stick held full back and neutral, rudders neutral, = power off, you can see the ride I get. it is actually a lot more bouncy = and shaking than the video portrays. I would never do this with say, my = wife, on board. eventually the left wing drops a lot, speed picks up = and the plane dives and pulls up, ready to start this routine all over = again. at this point I give full right rudder to initiate a spin, = recovering several thousand feet below the 5000' starting altitude. I = have tried the "flying leaf" maneuvers [only rudder corrections to a = stall] before, and again, never get into a full stall. =20 note - RV spin recovery requires neutral or forward stick along with = opposite rudder. this is not like the T-craft I learned to fly in. = pushing the stick in the direction of the spin will really wind it up. = don't do this! Van himself told me that! [afterwards] stick to 1 or 2 = revolutions[ not 6], that's all Vans has ever tested. kevin =20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DUtz0dRyg5mE =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CA52F5.E1CBDEA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
Nothing like a good spin, I love'em, no = fear at=20 all  - however not all Cessna are certified for spinning, so I = found=20 out, Oops!
George ( down under)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Thursday, October 22, = 2009 8:14=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: off = subject - RV=20 spin characteristics

Sound = terrible=20 exciting, Dave. I found that even spinning a Cessna 150 was more = thrilling=20 than I was interested in. So, I=92ll stick to my engine out dead-stick = landings=20 =96 easier on the heart (if not the seat cushions {:>)). =20

Ed

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, = 2009 3:21=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: off = subject - RV=20 spin characteristics

 

Fun = Stuff. 

 

I have pretty well explored the spin = characteristics=20 of my RV-6.  Every RV is different.  You never really got = one going=20 in that video, not even a full rotation best I could tell.  Mine = are=20 different depending on whether I spin toward the normally heavy wing, = or the=20 light wing.  They are steeper toward the heavy wing and also = steeper with=20 a pax.  Much better toward the lighter wing - makes for a nice = flat=20 spin.  I have not tried aileron in the direction of spin - = it is=20 fast enough without it.

 

Gradually approach the stall in level = flight. =20 Some slight rudder and aileron to partly compensate for the heavy = wing. =20 At stall buffet, throttle to idle, stick full aft and full = rudder. =20 At first it is steep pitch down and bobble like what you show.  = After=20 about 2 turns it flattens out and the rate of turn increases.  = After=20 about 4-6 turns it is fully developed and the centrifugal force is = quite=20 noticeable, turn rate seems about 1.5 seconds per = rotation, pitch=20 down is about 20 deg. and I am loosing about 400 feet per rotation = (the first=20 couple turns and last couple turns it is more than that).   = At about=20 6-8 turns I get oil pressure and fuel pressure low alarms = from the=20 gas and oil all being flung outboard away from the pickups.  That = is the=20 farthest I take it.

 

It takes me 3-5 turns to get out of a = fully=20 developed spin (before the spin develops, it is nearly instant).  = Start=20 with opposite rudder and stick to neutral, I have to forcibly = hold the=20 stick in the neutral position.  As the rotation slows and starts = to=20 reverse direction I need to smartly but not too fast apply = forward=20 stick.  Too fast, and the elevator stalls and mushes.  Too = slow and=20 I have missed the window of opportunity and the spin reverses = direction. =20 I can help by easing the rudder a little when the rotation is = slow.  The=20 Idea is to get the rudder and elevator flying again, then get the nose = down=20 while flying strait. It is sort of a feel thing, but it is a = little=20 scary, disorienting, and the trees are getting bigger and engine = alarms are=20 going off.  I did quite a few spins working up to this = point.  It=20 was a lot of practice getting used to the feel of the airplane and how = it=20 responds and getting comfortable with the sights and=20 sounds.

 

Once that elevator catches, it pitches down = and=20 out.  I hold the pitch down a couple seconds because there is not = power=20 from the engine yet and I want to keep it at idle while the oil system = re-pressurises.

 

Probably not really smart, but a whole lot = of=20 fun. 

 

Sorry I don't have any video.  Anyone = want to=20 come along and hold the camera?


--
David = Leonard

Turbo=20 Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:13 AM, kevin lane = <n3773@comcast.net>=20 wrote:

one day I = video recorded=20 what happens in my RV-6A when I attempt to stall/spin.  with the = stick=20 held full back and neutral, rudders neutral, power off, you can see = the ride I=20 get.  it is actually a lot more bouncy and shaking than the = video=20 portrays.  I would never do this with say, my wife, on = board. =20 eventually the left wing drops a lot, speed picks up and the plane = dives and=20 pulls up, ready to start this routine all over again.  at this = point I=20 give full right rudder to initiate a spin, recovering several thousand = feet=20 below the 5000' starting altitude.  I have tried the "flying = leaf"=20 maneuvers [only rudder corrections to a stall] before, and again, = never get=20 into a full = stall.   

 note - = RV spin=20 recovery requires neutral or forward stick along with opposite = rudder. =20 this is not like the T-craft I learned to fly in.  pushing the = stick in=20 the direction of the spin will really wind it up.  don't do = this! =20 Van himself told me that! [afterwards]   stick to 1 or = 2=20 revolutions[ not 6], that's all Vans has ever tested.   =20  kevin

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DUtz0dRyg5mE



 

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